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Is Vatican II Binding?

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Is Vatican II Binding? Empty Is Vatican II Binding?

Post  misterE Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:09 am

Given the fact that no doctrines were defined, and the teaching on ecumenism (among all the other errors) is completely erroneous, are we bound to pay any attention to it at all?

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Post  misterE Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:55 am

I'm confused as to what I'm bound to follow from VII besides the parts of it that state previously defined doctrine, and why people are so sensitive about criticizing the council if it was merely pastoral?

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Post  columba Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:27 pm

Hi misterE and welcome to the forum.

If Vat II is a true council of the Catholic Church then yes, it's binding despite its pastoral nature as it would still be a teaching council of the Magisterium and as such (in accord with the promises of Our Lord) it could not promote any error. If it does contain erroneous teachings then one would have to question its catholicity and authenticity of its teachers. That's what all the debate is about.
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Post  Forum Janitor Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:39 pm

It seems to me that, apart from the intervention in the Council by forces alien and hostile to the Catholic Church, that it’s very difficult indeed to credit Vatican II with the kind of authoritative force which its defenders believe it has.

In Animus Delendi, Atila Sinke Guimarães, made an interesting citation involving Cardinal Suenens, the Prelate of Belgium and one of the chief advocates of the Charismatic movement, who explained that the Council Fathers would never have voted for Vatican II if they’d believed that it were anything but pastoral. He also continued to explain that once their approval had been obtained, that the authorities would turn around and insist that the various things presented in Vatican II, which had originally been insisted upon as pastoral, would then become authoritative and imposed by force of law.

It’s frank testimonies like that from the mouths of one of the Church’s antagonists, that point to the kind of authority this Council is supposed to have, and to its true purpose. One wonders how a man so imbued with the beautiful spirit of Vatican II could be so dishonest and calculating.

From the aforementioned book, a brief review:

Normally, one speaks of the goodness of the "spirit of the Council." In this superbly documented work, Guimarães shows the other side of the coin - the animus delendi (desire to destroy).

Animus Delendi I examines the planned self-destruction of the Holy Church as designed and executed by the Conciliar and post-Conciliar progressivists. The author shows the roles played by the Pontiffs, the highest ranking ecclesiastical authorities, and progressivist theologians in the plan of auto-demolition of the Holy Catholic Church.

Acclaimed as a decisive work for the new Millennium.

Format: Paperback, 502 pp.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/tiabk001_AD1.htm
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Post  misterE Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:45 pm

So how do we explain the contradictions to the previously defined doctrines? Since I'm using my phone, I'm not able to go through all the more well known contradictions, but I'm sure people reading this know exactly what I'm talking about. Either Tradition is wrong, or VII doesn't teach anything binding. There's no way to reconcile the two.

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Post  Forum Janitor Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:48 pm

If ++Suenens testimony is in any way meaningful, it doesn’t have any validity (at least not in an authoritative sense) at all, since the men who were voting for it, were not voting for the Council to be authoritative.
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Post  misterE Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:51 pm

Wasn't it Cardinal Sumens that tried to bring the previously denied ecumenical movement into the Church after previous popes had spoken out against it? And wasn't John XXIII (or Paul VI) the pope that was so captivated by Sumens' presentation that he quietly put him in a position of authority in the council, making it flawed from the start?

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Post  misterE Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:53 pm

Oops... Siemens. My fault. I'm still learning how to read and write...

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Post  misterE Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:54 pm

Haha. My auto correct won't let me type his name. Stupid technology.

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Post  misterE Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:55 pm

Suenens. There. Now I can get on with my life.

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