Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus Forum (No Salvation Outside the Church Forum)
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Latest topics
» The Unity of the Body (the Church, Israel)
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptySun Mar 17, 2024 9:23 am by tornpage

» Defilement of the Temple
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyTue Feb 06, 2024 7:44 am by tornpage

» Forum update
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptySat Feb 03, 2024 8:24 am by tornpage

» Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyThu Feb 01, 2024 12:42 pm by MRyan

» The Mysterious 45 days of Daniel 12:11-12
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyFri Jan 26, 2024 11:04 am by tornpage

» St. Bonaventure on the Necessity of Baptism
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 7:06 pm by tornpage

» Isaiah 22:20-25
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyFri Jan 19, 2024 10:44 am by tornpage

» Translation of Bellarmine's De Amissione Gratiae, Bk. VI
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyFri Jan 19, 2024 10:04 am by tornpage

» Orestes Brownson Nails it on Baptism of Desire
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyThu Jan 18, 2024 3:06 pm by MRyan

» Do Feeneyites still exist?
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyWed Jan 17, 2024 8:02 am by Jehanne

» Sedevacantism and the Church's Indefectibility
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptySat Jan 13, 2024 5:22 pm by tornpage

» Inallible safety?
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyThu Jan 11, 2024 1:47 pm by MRyan

» Usury - Has the Church Erred?
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyTue Jan 09, 2024 11:05 pm by tornpage

» Rethink "Feeneyism"?
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyTue Jan 09, 2024 8:40 pm by MRyan

» SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyFri Jan 05, 2024 8:57 am by Jehanne

» Anyone still around?
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyMon Jan 01, 2024 11:04 pm by Jehanne

» Angelqueen.org???
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptyTue Oct 16, 2018 8:38 am by Paul

» Vatican (CDF/Ecclesia Dei) has no objection if the SSPX and all religious communities affirm Vatican Council II (without the premise)
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptySun Dec 10, 2017 8:29 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Piazza Spagna - mission
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptySun Dec 10, 2017 8:06 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Fund,Catholic organisation needed to help Catholic priests in Italy like Fr. Alessandro Minutella
The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. EmptySun Dec 10, 2017 7:52 am by Lionel L. Andrades


The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise.

Go down

The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. Empty The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise.

Post  Lionel Andrades Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:52 pm

The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise.
There is a video put out by the Society of St.Pius X (SOS-Resistance) which says Vatican Council II is the greatest disaster since the founding of the Church.They SSPX (SOS) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise.

The SSPX (SOS-Resistance) does not clarify if they are referring to Vatican Council II with or without the premise. Fig,white,mens,ffffffWhenever they criticize Vatican Council II they should clarify that this is Vatican Council II with the false premise.It is Vatican Council II with the dead man visible premise.This is the Vatican Council II of the Vatican Curia and the SSPX SOS.
This is the Vatican Council II which assumes all salvation in Heaven is physically visible  for us on earth.It infers that non Catholics are saved without the baptism of water.These cases it is assumed  are visible on earth.These deceased non Catholics are inferred to be visible exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is irrational, ridiculous and heretical.Yet this is the Vatican Council II understood by the magisterium,the traditionalists and sedevacantists.The original Vatican Council II was not irrational.The original Vatican Council II does not use the false premise.Without the false premise the Council is traditional.
So it must always be clarified if one is referring to a Vatican Council II with or without the irrational premise.
Vatican Council II, Ad Gentes 7 indicates most people are on the way to Hell without 'faith and baptism'.This is what I believe. This is how I interpret Vatican Council II.
Vatican Council II does not say that salvation in Heaven is visible to us.It does not say there is known salvation outside the Church.It does not state that Nostra Aetate 2, Unitatis Redintigratio 3, Lumen Gentium 16, Lumen Gentium 8 are exceptions to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The text does not make this inference.So I do not use the irrational inference in the interpretation of Vatican Council II.This is how I interpret the Council.It is in harmony with extra ecclesiam nulla salus, the Syllabus of Errors,the Catechism of Pope Pius X, the Council of Trent and the rest of Tradition.There is no  hermenutic of rupture.
We have found the missing link, the missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle .We now know what makes Vatican Council II traditional or non traditional.It is: the false premise!.
We need to target the false inference and the theological train will get back on the rails.
Identify the premise and change the Church!
-Lionel Andrades

I do not use an irrational inference, a false premise, so there is no discontinuity between Vatican II and Tradition
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/i-do-not-use-irrational-inference-false.html

Cantarella understands that the baptism of desire is not an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus: extend the reasoning to Vatican Council II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/cantarella-understands-that-baptism-of.html

Another baptism of desire list in which it is assumed that the deceased are visible to us
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/another-baptism-of-desire-list-in-which.html

The SSPX uses the same irrational theology of the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 in its interpretation of Vatican Council II
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/the-sspx-uses-same-irrational-theology.html

I reject an explicit baptism of desire and affirm the traditional and centuries old interpretation of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.If it is not explicit it is not an exception
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/reject-explicit-baptism-of-desire-and.html

Reconciliation with the SSPX
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/08/reconciliation-with-sspx.html

Lionel Andrades

Posts : 260
Reputation : 384
Join date : 2013-01-08

Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum