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Will the New English Translation Be Enough?

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Will the New English Translation Be Enough?

Post  Roguejim on Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:01 am

From the Vultus Christi blog.

His analysis of the priest is particularly spot on. I might send this to my pastor...

As for the topic title-question, don't make me laugh. "Enough" for what? I cringe at the thought of my pastor turning this new translation event into an occasion for spirited instruction during Mass. He's an extrovert. I will die a thousand deaths. Truly, it is a miracle I have held on.

http://vultus.stblogs.org/2011/06/will-the-new-english-translati.html
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Re: Will the New English Translation Be Enough?

Post  tornpage on Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:58 am

The placement, within perfectly proportioned sanctuaries, of secondary altars to allow for Mass facing the people has utterly destroyed the harmony, order, and spaciousness that the Sacred Liturgy, by its very nature, requires.

1 Machabees 1:62

And on the five and twentieth day of the month they sacrificed upon the altar of the idol that was over against the altar of God.

The analogy comes courtesy of the Dimonds.

Hey, if it's a horror movie, might as well make it a good horror movie.
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Re: Will the New English Translation Be Enough?

Post  Guest on Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:22 am

I go to the Novus Ordo for daily Mass and the Divine Liturgy or the TLM on Sundays and whenever else I have time for the drive.

The local Novus Ordo that I go to is not TOO bad considering the clown Masses and Barney Masses that have gone on in other parts of the country, but for me it is bad enough. Sometimes walking to Mass I contemplate being one of those "I only go to the TLM" people, but then I realize that I will not be able to receive Communion every day that way, and for me, it is hard for me to keep up my spiritual life with only Sunday Mass.

The parish is mostly Polish. In the 1980's they were pretty traditional, but now they have given in to communion in the hand and altar girls. Funny thing is they dress the altar girls in red cassocks with a surplice. LOL.

We used to have a nice baptistry at the back of the Church (where I was baptized) but now the baptismal font as been moved to behind the altar rail on the right side of the altar and the baptistry was changed into a shrine to Pope John Paul II (they had the shrine there when he was Servant of God). The Gospel lecturn, made of marble, was actually disconnected from it's place and moved right to the left side of the altar. (I am told by my friend that the way the old churches, like this one, have the priest read the Gospel so far from the altar and so far from the comfortable viewing of the people was to emphasize God and DE-EMPHASIZE man.)

What irritates me to no end is how the priest starts out with "Gooood Morning!" before the beginning of Mass and the ending of Mass goes like this:

Priest: "You may go in peace to love the and serve the Lord"
People: "Thanks be to God"
Priest: "And have a goood day!"
People: "Thank you Father, you too!"

The sermons are utterly terrible. They are not heretical, just utterly terrible.

The Church, due to its Polish presence has kept the altar rail and the high altar, but the altar rail (not joking here) is now a bulletin board for the cheesy artwork that the Kindergarten and First Graders do.

Not only do we have altar girls, we have an altar WOMAN. This lady serves every day and sings all the songs along with the organist. She stands at the Gospel lecturn and sings and makes the responses for the whole Mass from there. So not only do you have the priest staring at you since he is facing the people, you have this 60 year old woman who likes all the Novus Ordo classic songs doing so as well.

What's funny is all this sense of "community" that the Novus Ordo is supposed to produce is really phony. I mean we all face each other during Mass, people hold hands during the Our Father, but if I see anyone in that goes to that Mass walking down the street around the neighborhood before or after Mass they do not even say hello! I have said hello to people before and they have just given me a blank stare.


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Re: Will the New English Translation Be Enough?

Post  Roguejim on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:58 pm

RashaLampa wrote:I go to the Novus Ordo for daily Mass and the Divine Liturgy or the TLM on Sundays and whenever else I have time for the drive.

The local Novus Ordo that I go to is not TOO bad considering the clown Masses and Barney Masses that have gone on in other parts of the country, but for me it is bad enough. Sometimes walking to Mass I contemplate being one of those "I only go to the TLM" people, but then I realize that I will not be able to receive Communion every day that way, and for me, it is hard for me to keep up my spiritual life with only Sunday Mass.

The parish is mostly Polish. In the 1980's they were pretty traditional, but now they have given in to communion in the hand and altar girls. Funny thing is they dress the altar girls in red cassocks with a surplice. LOL.

We used to have a nice baptistry at the back of the Church (where I was baptized) but now the baptismal font as been moved to behind the altar rail on the right side of the altar and the baptistry was changed into a shrine to Pope John Paul II (they had the shrine there when he was Servant of God). The Gospel lecturn, made of marble, was actually disconnected from it's place and moved right to the left side of the altar. (I am told by my friend that the way the old churches, like this one, have the priest read the Gospel so far from the altar and so far from the comfortable viewing of the people was to emphasize God and DE-EMPHASIZE man.)

What irritates me to no end is how the priest starts out with "Gooood Morning!" before the beginning of Mass and the ending of Mass goes like this:

Priest: "You may go in peace to love the and serve the Lord"
People: "Thanks be to God"
Priest: "And have a goood day!"
People: "Thank you Father, you too!"

The sermons are utterly terrible. They are not heretical, just utterly terrible.

The Church, due to its Polish presence has kept the altar rail and the high altar, but the altar rail (not joking here) is now a bulletin board for the cheesy artwork that the Kindergarten and First Graders do.

Not only do we have altar girls, we have an altar WOMAN. This lady serves every day and sings all the songs along with the organist. She stands at the Gospel lecturn and sings and makes the responses for the whole Mass from there. So not only do you have the priest staring at you since he is facing the people, you have this 60 year old woman who likes all the Novus Ordo classic songs doing so as well.

What's funny is all this sense of "community" that the Novus Ordo is supposed to produce is really phony. I mean we all face each other during Mass, people hold hands during the Our Father, but if I see anyone in that goes to that Mass walking down the street around the neighborhood before or after Mass they do not even say hello! I have said hello to people before and they have just given me a blank stare.


So what you're saying is the new translation isn't going to be "enough" to make any substantial difference at your NO parish. Our pastor has already commented at Mass that the new translation will be more true to VII. Eureka!
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Re: Will the New English Translation Be Enough?

Post  tornpage on Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:40 pm

Not only do we have altar girls, we have an altar WOMAN. This lady serves every day and sings all the songs along with the organist. She stands at the Gospel lecturn and sings and makes the responses for the whole Mass from there. So not only do you have the priest staring at you since he is facing the people, you have this 60 year old woman who likes all the Novus Ordo classic songs doing so as well.

What, Rasha, no female eucharistic ministers tramping up to the sacred space after the consecration?

But that's bad enough.

The Dimonds have a great scene in their horror movie with the ladies. It goes like this:

2 Machabess 6:4-5

for the temple was full of the lecherie and glottonie of the Gentiles: & of
them that played the harlots with whoores. And women thrusting themselves
of their own accord into the sacred houses, bringing in thouse things which
were not lawful. The altar also was full of unlawful things, which were forbidden by the laws.

They also refer to a "commentary," not footnoted by the mad footnoters (hmmm), that allegedly says this on the verse:

“At no time in Jewish history were women involved in Jewish liturgical practices except at the time of the ‘Abomination of Desolation’; and then they were all over the altar” (commentary on 2 Mac. 6:4).

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Re: Will the New English Translation Be Enough?

Post  Guest on Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:26 am

I think the new translation will HELP, but I don't think it will be enough, no.

There are some moves in the right direction. I noticed that after the school Mass they had adoration and benediction. At the same time, the teachers and the students were lost as to when to sit and when to stand, etc. I think these priests that they send over from Poland kind of assume because people in Poland generally have been catechized, that they are catechized here too.

I went to that grade school when I was a kid and then my parents switched me to another one which is about a mile a way and we NEVER had adoration or benediction. In fact, I did not even know what adoration was until I was 18 years old. (Went to Catholic school from K-12).

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Re: Will the New English Translation Be Enough?

Post  Roguejim on Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:56 am

tornpage wrote:
The placement, within perfectly proportioned sanctuaries, of secondary altars to allow for Mass facing the people has utterly destroyed the harmony, order, and spaciousness that the Sacred Liturgy, by its very nature, requires.

1 Machabees 1:62

And on the five and twentieth day of the month they sacrificed upon the altar of the idol that was over against the altar of God.

The analogy comes courtesy of the Dimonds.

Hey, if it's a horror movie, might as well make it a good horror movie.

That's a scary movie. Can't help but think...
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Re: Will the New English Translation Be Enough?

Post  DeSelby on Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:40 pm

tornpage wrote:They also refer to a "commentary," not footnoted by the mad footnoters (hmmm), that allegedly says this on the verse:

“At no time in Jewish history were women involved in Jewish liturgical practices except at the time of the ‘Abomination of Desolation’; and then they were all over the altar” (commentary on 2 Mac. 6:4).


FWIW, from the article you refer to:

. . . As for the period of the Machabees (implicit), I would recommend to the reader that he read 1 and 2 Machabees, together with all the footnotes in the Challoner Douay-Rheims Bible, 1 and 2 Machabees in the Jerusalem and/or the New Jerusalem Bible together with all the notes, the commentary on the Machabees in the Jerome Biblical Commentary, the two volumes on the Machabees in the Anchor Bible series. Drawing on that material I think I can make the following statements: [...]

I know it's not from the Challoner Douay-Rheims. I happen to have (reluctantly) a "readers edition" of the New Jerusalem but it also has nothing. There is a bigger edition of the NJ Bible with more commentary (more modernism) out there. I have a feeling the best bet would be the Anchor Bible 2 Maccabees commentary, by Jonathan Goldstein, for starters, if you ever wanted to look for it at a library or something. Then the Jerome (Raymond Brown, et al. ) Commentary. I couldn't find anything online.
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Re: Will the New English Translation Be Enough?

Post  Guest on Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:58 pm

Over and above everything that's already been stated... what use is the new translation going to be to a generation of priests who already ad-lib/alter the current translation? The only noticeable difference in their Masses is going to be the slight pause whilst they think of what else they can say instead of what's given to them.

The reform of the reform will take place when (and only when) the Church has faithful priests serving at her altars.

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