Latest topics
» Polish traditionalists handicapped : Archbishop Lefebvre made a mistake
Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:20 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Communities of Fr.Leonard Feeney in the USA when they interpret Vatican Council II with the irrational premise deny the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus
Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:18 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Bishop Robert J.McManus and Brother Thomas Augustine MICM,Superior,St.Benedict Center,Still River,MA, interpret Vatican Council II with the 'possibilites are exceptions' error
Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:47 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» SSPX must be aware of the deception of Abp.Guido Pozzo and confront it
Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:57 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Two popes must ask all Catholics to affirm Vatican Council II (premise-free) as they do
Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:16 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary Still River Ma., could lose canomical status because of Feeneyism
Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:54 am by Lionel L. Andrades

»  Traditionalists oppose Pope Francis on morals but give him a pass on salvation
Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:06 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Someone needs to help Cardinal Luiz Ladaria, Archbishop Pozzo and Archbishop Di Noia see how they use a false premise to interpret Vatican Council II
Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:53 pm by Lionel L. Andrades

» Robert Siscoe and John of St. Thomas Respond to Fr. Cekada
Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:25 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Still no denial from Abp.Guido Pozzo : SSPX must accept Vatican Council II with a false doctrine and the new theology based on an irrational premise Image result for Photo of Archbishop Guido Pozzo
Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:03 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Five Catholic academics accept the development of doctrine on salvation and Vatican Council II but reject it on morals and the death penalty
Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:32 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Dr.Robert Fastiggi wants Bishop Donald Sanborn and Chris Ferrara to affirm a magisterium in heresy and schism like him
Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:30 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» ]Christine Niles uses the false premise to interpret magisterial documents
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:30 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» SSPX has a right to canonical status when they correct their doctrinal error in the 'chart'
Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:25 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» No one shows Massimo Faggioli his precise theological and philosophical mistake
Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:07 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Rethink "Feeneyism"?
Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:02 pm by tornpage

» Brother Andre Marie MICM, the Prior at the St. Benedict Center does not correct Frs.Brian Harrison and Cekada,Bishops Sanborn,Pirvanus,Kelly and Fellay
Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:24 pm by MRyan

» Revisiting Diocese/Parish Screening Policy
Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:03 pm by MRyan

» When sedes and trads can accept that Pius XII made a mistake then popes since John XXIII are no more in heresy
Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:08 pm by MRyan

» Doctrinal talks were conducted with Fr.Gleize on 'the other side'
Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:08 am by Lionel L. Andrades


Fr. Faber on the Incarnation

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Fr. Faber on the Incarnation

Post  Roguejim on Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:07 pm

I'm moving slowly through Fr. Faber's Precious Blood because he presents much to contemplate, in a style which I happen to like. Here's a little something which caught me by surprise because I had always considered the Incarnation strictly in terns of atonement/redemption. He presents a different view here (my emphasis added):

..."Moreover, it was always part of his
intention that the Creator should become as it
were part of his own creation, and that an Un
created Person should really and truly assume a
created nature and be born of a created mother.
This is what we call the mystery of the Incarna
tion. It is this which makes creation so magnifi
cent. It was not merely a beautiful thing which
God made as an artificer, and which he set outside
of himself, and kept at a distance from himself to
look at, to admire, to pity, and to love. He always
intended to be part of it himself in a very wonder
ful way. So that there would have been Jesus and
Mary, even if there had never been any sin
: only
Jesus would not have been crucified, and Mary
would not have had any dolors. But the sight
of sin was also with God from the beginning, that
is, through all his unbeginning eternity; and thus
the Precious Blood also, as the ransom for sin, was
with him from the beginning..."

While I did not question Fr. Faber's orthodoxy , nor brand him a heretic from my esteemed position as "hack internet theologian", I did run it by the "retired theology professor" for his comments, which ended up being interesting. Here they are, below my initial query:

Dear Theologian,

I've been reading Fr. Faber's Precious Blood. My question concerns the underlined/bolded part below. I was under the perhaps mistaken belief that the Incarnation was solely for the purpose of atonement and redemption, that if it hadn't been for the sin of Adam and Eve, there would have been no reason for it. Fr. Faber seems to say otherwise. Are his thoughts traditional Catholic thought? Is his view open to discussion, i.e., do orthodox theologians still discuss/debate this?

In Jesus and Mary,
Roguejim


Dear Roguejim,

"Both views are within the bonds of orthodoxy.
The dominant, Thomistic, view has been that the Incarnation took place only in view of sin and the need for Redemption. However, St. Thomas' Franciscan contemporary, St. Bonaventure, took the opposite view, and many or most Franciscan theologians have followed him, as does Fr. Faber.
Blessings,
Prof

avatar
Roguejim

Posts : 211
Reputation : 315
Join date : 2010-12-18
Location : southern Oregon

Back to top Go down

Re: Fr. Faber on the Incarnation

Post  Roguejim on Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:37 pm

Prof's reply should read "bounds of orthodoxy".

The EDIT feature here stinks.
avatar
Roguejim

Posts : 211
Reputation : 315
Join date : 2010-12-18
Location : southern Oregon

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum