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Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

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Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  otremer6 on Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:36 pm

Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only
(Brasilia) Bishop Msgr Antonio Keller, of German descent, head shepherd of the southern Brazilian Diocese Frederico Westphalen is only giving Holy Communion since Christmas in his Cathedral church to those who are kneeling and on the tongue. He is following the example of Pope Benedict XVI in this and is intending to support the "reform of the reform".

http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2011/12/bishop-follows-pope-benedicts-example.html

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Bishop follows Pope Benedict XVI example, kneeling only

Post  George Brenner on Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:18 pm

God Bless, (Brasilia) Bishop Msgr Antonio Keller, of German descent, head shepherd of the southern Brazilian Diocese Frederico Westphalen is only giving Holy Communion since Christmas on the tongue kneeling.

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  columba on Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:21 pm

I see a problem with the bishop's refusal to give holy communion in the hand.
The fact that one breaks no Church law/ruling by receiving on the hand, gives the bishop no right to refuse. If it were the case that someome could be refused commuion for wishing to receive in the hand then what's to prevent someone else being refused by another bishop for wishing to receive on the tongue while kneeling?

The Church needs to state the rule before individual priests or bishops decide on their own bat who will receive and who won't.
I disagree totally with commuion in the hand but this gives no mandate for me to decide for others while the Church still permits reception both ways.

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Bishop follows Pope Benedict XVI example, kneeling only

Post  George Brenner on Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:57 pm

Columba says:

I see a problem with the bishop's refusal to give holy communion in the hand.
The fact that one breaks no Church law/ruling by receiving on the hand, gives the bishop no right to refuse. If it were the case that someome could be refused commuion for wishing to receive in the hand then what's to prevent someone else being refused by another bishop for wishing to receive on the tongue while kneeling?

The Church needs to state the rule before individual priests or bishops decide on their own bat who will receive and who won't.
I disagree totally with commuion in the hand but this gives no mandate for me to decide for others while the Church still permits reception both ways.

Columba, I agree completely with what you say in your last post. The abilty to receive communion in the hand was and indult granted to a few countries.

I think the following link does a nice job on the Holy Communion issues

From Catholic Pages.com.... Communion in the hand

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7ntbUAJPGz4A8gRXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEybWNvb3BsBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0RGRDVfOTA-/SIG=121ckv99e/EXP=1325580507/**http%3a//www.catholic-pages.com/mass/inhand.asp

JMJ,

George




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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  otremer6 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:31 pm

He could solve that problem by saying Mass exclusively in the Immemorial Rite of the Mass.


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Bishop follows Pope Benedict's example,kneeling only

Post  George Brenner on Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:14 pm

Yes, out the Pope would revoke the I n d u l t to receive communion in the hand, return to the Latin Mass with communion rails that would be great legacy in restoration of the Faith.

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  otremer6 on Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:10 pm

Since he's following the Holy Father's example, he may have a few who resist him, but I can't imagine they're going to be very frequent.

As far as I know the Holy Father has only had to give communion in the hand to one person, and that's the Queen of Spain.

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:08 am

otremer6 wrote:

Since he's following the Holy Father's example...

As far as I know the Holy Father has only had to give communion in the hand to one person, and that's the Queen of Spain.

Otremer6 I would like to inform you that, on April 8, 2005 Benedict XVI also gave communion to Bro. Roger, the Protestant founder of the Taize community and in the picture, which you can view in the following link, if you scroll about half way down the page, it looks to me that Benedict is giving the Protestant communion in the hand.

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/BenedictXVI_mainpage.php

May it also be stated that on Aug. 17, 2005, four months after the death of the Protestant Bro. Roger, Benedict XVI said that he was "in the hands of eternal goodness, of eternal love; he has arrived at eternal joy…"

Benedict XVI, Aug. 17, 2005, on Bro. Roger: "Bro. Roger Schutz [founder of a non-Catholic sect] is in the hands of eternal goodness, of eternal love; he has arrived at eternal joy…"

Also:

Benedict XVI, Address to Protestants at World Youth Day, August 19, 2005: “Bro. Roger Schutz… He is now visiting us and speaking to us from on high.”

Pope St. Gregory the Great: “The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved.”[54]

What do you think Pope St. Gregory the Great would have to say about the above actions and statments from Benedict XVI?





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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  otremer6 on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:02 am

Fatima for our times wrote:
otremer6 wrote:

Since he's following the Holy Father's example...

As far as I know the Holy Father has only had to give communion in the hand to one person, and that's the Queen of Spain.

Otremer6 I would like to inform you that, on April 8, 2005 Benedict XVI also gave communion to Bro. Roger, the Protestant founder of the Taize community and in the picture, which you can view in the following link, if you scroll about half way down the page, it looks to me that Benedict is giving the Protestant communion in the hand.

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/BenedictXVI_mainpage.php

May it also be stated that on Aug. 17, 2005, four months after the death of the Protestant Bro. Roger, Benedict XVI said that he was "in the hands of eternal goodness, of eternal love; he has arrived at eternal joy…"

Benedict XVI, Aug. 17, 2005, on Bro. Roger: "Bro. Roger Schutz [founder of a non-Catholic sect] is in the hands of eternal goodness, of eternal love; he has arrived at eternal joy…"

Also:

Benedict XVI, Address to Protestants at World Youth Day, August 19, 2005: “Bro. Roger Schutz… He is now visiting us and speaking to us from on high.”

Pope St. Gregory the Great: “The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved.”[54]

What do you think Pope St. Gregory the Great would have to say about the above actions and statments from Benedict XVI?





Completely irrelevant post.

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  Guest on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:08 pm

Fatima for our times wrote:
otremer6 wrote:

Since he's following the Holy Father's example...

As far as I know the Holy Father has only had to give communion in the hand to one person, and that's the Queen of Spain.

Otremer6 I would like to inform you that, on April 8, 2005 Benedict XVI also gave communion to Bro. Roger, the Protestant founder of the Taize community and in the picture, which you can view in the following link, if you scroll about half way down the page, it looks to me that Benedict is giving the Protestant communion in the hand.

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/BenedictXVI_mainpage.php

May it also be stated that on Aug. 17, 2005, four months after the death of the Protestant Bro. Roger, Benedict XVI said that he was "in the hands of eternal goodness, of eternal love; he has arrived at eternal joy…"

Benedict XVI, Aug. 17, 2005, on Bro. Roger: "Bro. Roger Schutz [founder of a non-Catholic sect] is in the hands of eternal goodness, of eternal love; he has arrived at eternal joy…"

Also:

Benedict XVI, Address to Protestants at World Youth Day, August 19, 2005: “Bro. Roger Schutz… He is now visiting us and speaking to us from on high.”

Pope St. Gregory the Great: “The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved.”[54]

What do you think Pope St. Gregory the Great would have to say about the above actions and statments from Benedict XVI?


otremer6 wrote:

Completely irrelevant post...

It is not a completely irrelevant post otremer6. If you’re going to post news articles that say a bishop is following Benedict XVI example of giving communion to people on the tongue, knelling only, my post becomes relevant because in the link that I provided, if you actually care to click on it, it shows Benedict giving communion to a protestant, sitting, in the hand. So the headline in your news article is lye and misleading. Is that really how Benedict XVI gives out communion? No it isn’t. He has given communion in the hand to people standing many times before, even to Protestants.

When will you open your eyes otremer6 and stop letting yourself be deceived?








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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  simple Faith on Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:10 pm

Hi Fatima, sorry to see your still a member of the 'One unholy non-catholic and apostatical' church with the invisible head.
But congratulations anyway, only you could rouse me from my slumber.
You really should have keep taking your medication.
Anyway, happy New Year (and to all on the forum).
PS. any developments on your planned holiday to Ireland?
I would just like a little notice so as I can plan a nice happy clappy church reception for your arrival.

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  otremer6 on Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:50 pm

Fatima for our times wrote:
Fatima for our times wrote:
otremer6 wrote:

Since he's following the Holy Father's example...

As far as I know the Holy Father has only had to give communion in the hand to one person, and that's the Queen of Spain.

Otremer6 I would like to inform you that, on April 8, 2005 Benedict XVI also gave communion to Bro. Roger, the Protestant founder of the Taize community and in the picture, which you can view in the following link, if you scroll about half way down the page, it looks to me that Benedict is giving the Protestant communion in the hand.

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/BenedictXVI_mainpage.php

May it also be stated that on Aug. 17, 2005, four months after the death of the Protestant Bro. Roger, Benedict XVI said that he was "in the hands of eternal goodness, of eternal love; he has arrived at eternal joy…"

Benedict XVI, Aug. 17, 2005, on Bro. Roger: "Bro. Roger Schutz [founder of a non-Catholic sect] is in the hands of eternal goodness, of eternal love; he has arrived at eternal joy…"

Also:

Benedict XVI, Address to Protestants at World Youth Day, August 19, 2005: “Bro. Roger Schutz… He is now visiting us and speaking to us from on high.”

Pope St. Gregory the Great: “The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved.”[54]

What do you think Pope St. Gregory the Great would have to say about the above actions and statments from Benedict XVI?


otremer6 wrote:

Completely irrelevant post...

It is not a completely irrelevant post otremer6. If you’re going to post news articles that say a bishop is following Benedict XVI example of giving communion to people on the tongue, knelling only, my post becomes relevant because in the link that I provided, if you actually care to click on it, it shows Benedict giving communion to a protestant, sitting, in the hand. So the headline in your news article is lye and misleading. Is that really how Benedict XVI gives out communion? No it isn’t. He has given communion in the hand to people standing many times before, even to Protestants.

When will you open your eyes otremer6 and stop letting yourself be deceived?








Misleading how? When he gives Holy Communion, he does so only to those kneeling and on the tongue. Another Bishop in Brazil has followed his example.

How is this misleading?

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  simple Faith on Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:59 pm

Fatima, you really shouldn't take every commentary and interpretation the Dimond brothers give about a photograph or video as factual or in any way accurate as to what is actually taking place. It seems to be a particular party piece favoured by the brothers.
In this photograph, the then-Cardinal Ratzinger, is actually giving communion to Roger Schutz, a Catholic convert. This conversion, took place in 1972, in the chapel of the Bishop of Autun, the diocese where Taizé is located. 'There was a profession of the Catholic Faith then Communion was given by Mgr. Le Bourgeois'.
As this conversion was not widely known about and it therefore prompted questions by many, Cardinal Kasper, at that time made an annoucement that “Brother Roger is formally Catholic.”
The most likely reason that Roger Schutz is not kneeling in the photo is because he was 90 years old at the time and was in a wheel chair.

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  otremer6 on Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:26 pm

Let the sedes talk enough and they invariably discredit themselves.

You know, it always seemed worthwhile to me to give the benefit of the doubt.

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  Guest on Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:04 am

Hi Simple Faith, it’s good to hear from you again, honestly Smile My plans for a trip to Ireland are not finalized as of yet, but when they are I will be sure to let you know. Just as you mention about a nice happy clappy Church reception for when we get over there, I should tell you, I done a bit of research myself on where one could attend a valid liturgy and receive valid sacraments in Ireland in this time of great apostasy. I spoke with two “priests” who celebrate the Latin Mass but unfortunately they were ordained in Paul VI new rite of ordination, which is invalid, so that is an off limit for me if I go there. I did speak with a priest who said he was ordained in 1958 and who celebrated the traditional Mass every Sunday morning, but after speaking with him about the latest Assisi apostate “prayer” meeting he put me right off attending his Mass. When I asked him about Assisi III and what he thought about it he said “I think that’s a great thing, that’s brilliant,” or something along those lines. I have what he said to me written down somewhere, but I can’t find it now. I will try and look for it. When I told him that this event has always been condemned by the Church he said to me “why are you worried about all that stuff for.” When I began to explain to him Church teaching on the matter he hung up on me. I called him right back after he hung up on me and I said to him we must have gotten cut off and he said “I’m in the middle of my dinner” in a very rude manner, then hung up the phone on me once again. This priest and the former two "priests" are members of the Latin Mass society of Ireland, the latter priest is part of the diocese of Raphoe, Co. Donegal, he celebrates Mass in the town of Bruckless and I think his name is Very Rev. Father Dermot McShane, but don’t quote me.

Simple Faith wrote:
Fatima, you really shouldn't take every commentary and interpretation the Dimond brothers give about a photograph or video as factual or in any way accurate as to what is actually taking place. It seems to be a particular party piece favoured by the brothers.

Maybe so, but I give the brothers commentary and interpretation great value for the most part as I believe them to be up front and honest and they tell it how it is without sugar coating it like most people do today by making things seem not as bad as they really are, I give the brothers respect for that. Another good thing about the brothers is that they provide you with the sources for where they get their information from so that if a person doesn’t take them for their word they can check the information out for themselves.

Simple Faith wrote:
In this photograph, the then-Cardinal Ratzinger, is actually giving communion to Roger Schutz, a Catholic convert. This conversion, took place in 1972, in the chapel of the Bishop of Autun, the diocese where Taizé is located. 'There was a profession of the Catholic Faith then Communion was given by Mgr. Le Bourgeois'.
As this conversion was not widely known about and it therefore prompted questions by many, Cardinal Kasper, at that time made an annoucement that “Brother Roger is formally Catholic.”

That is interesting Simple Faith, could you share your source on that? I definitely would not take Cardinal Walter Kaspers’ word for it, he’s the one that stated “today we no longer understand ecumenism in the sense of a return, by which the others would ‘be converted’ and return to being Catholics. This was expressly abandoned by Vatican II” Adista, Feb. 26, 2001. Cardinal Kasper should be resisted, and his words should be considered worthless after coming out with a heretical speech such as that. Would you agree?

Fatima for our times wrote:
Otremer6 I would like to inform you that, on April 8, 2005 Benedict XVI also gave communion to Bro. Roger, the Protestant founder of the Taize community…

The source for the statement in my above post in provided in the link below. Also, here are two interesting quotes taken from the article:

Despite his ecumenical passion, Brother Roger, a minister of the Swiss Reformed Church, did not believe in shared Communion, and it was not practiced at the services in Taize…

Cardinal Ratzinger… In the end, he did what many pastors in local dioceses do in such circumstances: He gave Communion.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0504883.htm

Here’s an interesting article by John Vennari titled “Brother Roger Died a Protestant” published in Catholic Family News:

http://www.cfnews.org/BroRoger.htm

Below are a few quotes taken from the article:

Last year, I published a piece entitled "Pope Benedict XVI and Eucharistic Sacrilege". Here I reported the sad truth that Card. Ratzinger had given Communion to the Protestant Brother Roger at Pope John Paul II's funeral Mass.

Before writing the article I telephoned Taizé in France to ask if Brother Roger had become Catholic. I wanted to be certain, since Fr. Richard Neuhaus said on an EWTN broadcast that Brother Roger had converted to Catholicism and "was now a Catholic priest."

An English-speaking representative of Taizé told me that Brother Roger, who was still alive at the time, had not converted to Catholicism, but was still a Protestant.

Then in mid-September, after Brother Roger's murder, rumors again circulated about Brother Roger's conversion. On September 15, 2005, I telephoned Taizé once again to ask if Brother Roger had become Catholic.

"Oh no," said Brother Johannes, a member of the community, "that is not true." Brother Johannes assured me that Brother Roger did not convert to the Catholic Church before his death. Taize's recent press release confirms the fact of Brother Roger's non-conversion.

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  Guest on Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:14 am

Otremer6 wrote:
Misleading how? When he gives Holy Communion, he does so only to those kneeling and on the tongue. Another Bishop in Brazil has followed his example.

How is this misleading?

[color=white]Benedict XVI, Light of the World, 2010, p. 158: “I am not opposed in principle to communion in the hand; I have both administered and received communion in this way.”[/color

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  Guest on Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:15 am

Otremer6 wrote:
Misleading how? When he gives Holy Communion, he does so only to those kneeling and on the tongue. Another Bishop in Brazil has followed his example.

How is this misleading?

Benedict XVI, Light of the World, 2010, p. 158: “I am not opposed in principle to communion in the hand; I have both administered and received communion in this way.”

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  Guest on Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:02 pm


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Bishop follows Pope Benedict XVI example, kneeling only

Post  George Brenner on Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:30 am

Taken from:



Communion in the Hand while Standing:
What’s the problem? By Howard Toon:








"It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another."

- Pope John Paul II, Inaestimabile Donum (April, 1980) -



(www.RemnantNewspaper.com) The Church teaches that Christ’s Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity are present in the Blessed Sacrament. There are many Martyrs who gave their lives rather than deny this teaching. Any self-respecting Catholic knows this. There really ought to be no question about how Holy Communion should be received, and that is: on the tongue whilst kneeling.

There can be no denying that Holy Communion is now almost universally received in the hand and that this has been the case since shortly after the conclusion of the Second Vatican Council. Note, however, that there is no mention whatever of Communion in the hand in the documents of Vatican II. In fact, Cardinal L Suenens first introduced the practice illicitly in Belgium in the mid 1960s from whence it spread quickly to Holland, Germany and France.

When the abuse came to the notice of Pope Paul VI in 1969, he issued Memoriale Domini ruling out universal change to the Church’s method of administering Holy Communion on the tongue to kneeling communicants. In this document the Pope expressed his sadness that Communion in the hand had been introduced in some places without either his knowledge or the Church’s consent.

Subsequently, Pope John Paul II twice indicated the irregularity of this practice as a universal norm. In Dominicae Cenae (Feb. 1980), he stated: “To touch the sacred species and to distribute them with their own hands is a privilege of the ordained.”

Then, in Inaestimabile Donum (April, 1980), Pope John Paul wrote: "It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another.


Pope Benedict XVI now shows by his own example how the Apostolic See wishes Holy Communion to be administered. At his Papal Masses the faithful are obliged to kneel and receive on the tongue from HIS hand, not their own.

In fact, no post-conciliar Pope has approved, much less promoted, the novelty of Communion in the hand. Papal toleration is not the same as papal approval! That ought to be sufficient to make priests and the faithful reflect seriously on what they do.

Sadly, though, an attitude has manifested itself since the Second Vatican Council whereby many now see the Church as a democratic rather than a divine autocratic institution, claiming that it is best served by acceding to the wishes of the majority rather than being led by the Pope with the infallible guidance of the Holy Ghost in matters pertaining to universal faith and morals.

There are some in positions of authority within the Vatican itself who are also of this mindset, and who have set about their agenda for change by restricting the extent to which the Catholic Faith is taught.

For example, when religious instruction was on the curriculum in Catholic schools, children were taught about the faith – how and why Christ came to earth, His Revelations, His Passion and Death on the Cross, His Ascension into heaven and the provisions He made for the growth of Christianity.

Given the suffering that Our Lord went through in order to redeem our souls, and the greatness of our debt to Him, it is clear that no Catholic should come into His presence without genuflecting, and no Catholic should receive Him in Holy Communion without kneeling down in reverence. It ought to go without saying that no lay Catholic should ever consider touching the Blessed Sacrament with his hands. Such was the teaching throughout history up to 1960."

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:46 am

Hi RashaLampa,

Could you tell me how I can post youtube videos on the forum, just like you have done above? I have no clue how to do it.

Thank you

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Re: Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only

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