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Does regularization in the Church mean a gag order?

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Does regularization in the Church mean a gag order?

Post  Guest on Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:55 am

First I want to say that this post is NOT an attack on the Transalpine Redemptorists or the FSSP, so please don't take it that way.

I used to follow the Transalpine Redemptorist website when they were SSPX. They used to have a lot of articles about the Eastern Catholic Churches. They also had a lot of articles condemning modernism and they had a nice little blurb condeming the Balamaand Agreement.

When they got regularized in the Church all of that stuff was removed from their website. No more denunciation of Balamaand, etc.

Now their approach tends to be focus on the positive, have pictures of Pope Benedict in traditional dress, pictures of the Traditional Mass, etc. They do have a few lives of the Saints of Eastern Catholic Redemptorist saints, but NOTHING controversial by any means.

If you look at the FSSP site you will find the same thing http://fssp.org/en/index.htm
It's all orthodox and traditional, but again, no scholarly articles on modernism and no articles really addressing modernism in the Church.

Is regularization necessitate a gag order as well? Are there any regularized groups that are "in communion with Rome" that actually address the issues?








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Re: Does regularization in the Church mean a gag order?

Post  columba on Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:49 pm

That seems to be the case. There's a price to pay for regularization and it looks very much like the SSPX will have to pay that price too if they come to an agreement with Rome.

It's clear to me that Vat II has reached the state of invincibility and has become the ultimate dogma dispensing with every other dogma as and when expediency dictates. Lukewarmness is the order of the day. No extremes are tolerated, neither too traditional nor too liberal. The whole think has taken on a life of its own and no one on the inside can control it. In the words of Dr Frankenstein, "We've created a monster."
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Does regularization in the Church mean a gag order?

Post  George Brenner on Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:51 pm

RashaLampa and DeSelby said the following with much wisdom and must be addressed.

RashaLampa said:


"First I want to say that this post is NOT an attack on the Transalpine Redemptorists or the FSSP, so please don't take it that way.

I used to follow the Transalpine Redemptorist website when they were SSPX. They used to have a lot of articles about the Eastern Catholic Churches. They also had a lot of articles condemning modernism and they had a nice little blurb condeming the Balamaand Agreement.

When they got regularized in the Church all of that stuff was removed from their website. No more denunciation of Balamaand, etc.

Now their approach tends to be focus on the positive, have pictures of Pope Benedict
in traditional dress, pictures of the Traditional Mass, etc. They do have a few lives of the Saints of Eastern Catholic Redemptorist saints, but NOTHING controversial by any means.

If you look at the FSSP site you will find the same thing http://fssp.org/en/index.htm
It's all orthodox and traditional, but again, no scholarly articles on modernism and no articles really addressing modernism in the Church.

Is regularization necessitate a gag order as well? Are there any regularized groups that are "in communion with Rome" that actually address the issues?



DeSelby says:

"The agnostics get a courtyard; why shouldn't Catholics who are confused, despondent, bewildered, concussed and concerned about the seeming reign of Modernism and heresy in the Church have one? We would present our concerns in a calm, charitable manner, but we also wouldn't beat around the bush... It would be like a summit. And it would be primarily for the layman, rather than theologians behind closed doors.

Kindly ask them to solve the riddles of Vatican Council Two before our eyes, if such is even possible. Present them with what we respect
fully believe to be their troubling statements and actions, and ask them, humbly, to explain themselves. [/color]

If one is to go Sedevacantist, I think that one at least owes it to the authorities a chance to explain themselves. It is just. I put it to the forum: What do you all think?


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This Forum concerns THE most important subject namely Our Salvation and destiny into eternity for us and many. The exchanges between us are not only very important but as I have often said it is completely possible through prayer, actions and working together whenever we can as Defenders of the Faith to make a difference in the restoration of our Catholic Church. I feel that it is our moral duty to fight for our Church. We are not here to exchange recipes. The Catholic Church that our Savior founded on the rock of Saint Peter is not that complicated. It all comes down to Good versus Evil. The designs of Heaven versus hell. If enough of us can work together there is no reason this forum could not "go viral" as they say. I quote below one definition of going viral:

"Whenever a person or business says they create viral videos, projects, or marketing campaigns I always have to raise an eyebrow. Red flags go up when I see this due to the fact that content going viral isn’t decided by the creator. It’s decided by the viewer. It’s decided by you and me, the consumers. Real viral traction occurs when information is constantly being spread, when people are forwarding it in emails, when retweets are happening like crazy, when there is constant chatter on and off the web, and when traffic comes from many places and extends across the globe."

We humbly are all sinners. What we need is SinnerG { Sinergy }.
We do not need to reform the reform; we need to restore our church to pre Vatican II times. I know that seems almost impossible, but with prayer all things are possible and happen every day. I have great optimism in our times of great concern and sadness.

I have prayed most of my life for the return of the word "Many" instead of All to the consecration along with other dignified holy and humble praises for Our God, Savior and Blessed Mother, Saints and Angels throughout the Mass. I thought the chance of this happening was almost impossible. There are so many pious and holy priests like Father Michael Rodriquez, Bishop Alexander Sample, Father George, whose mass I attend said in Latin. He is a priest of FSSP. There are so many others. I had a rough draft ready to send before our forum was briefly shut down to the Bishop of El Paso, Texas after asking any of the forum members for their comments and input before sending. The [/color]plight of many of the people there as in many places throughout the world is unbearable. The dilution of our faith and sacrilegious teachings by large numbers of so called Catholics will be held accountable. Then as Father Rodriquez said to me in an email last month which I posted on this forum it was miraculous that the Bishop of El Paso was transfered to California and he prays for a strong Bishop to replace him.

It is not my station in life to attack, undermine or question Our Pope. He has more weight on his soul then we could ever imagine. It is our duty to be subject to the Pope , pray constantly for him with deep love and concern. I would be a hypocrite as I said in my open letter to God not to say I do have grave and deep concerns. I would never question the Pope but would love to ask a few questions of him and beg for his blessing.
My contemplation tells me that after extensive research on the Dimond brothers that although they possess great knowledge, they mislead and lead many into eternal destruction for their failure to stay within the Church in this great time of suffering.

I believe we should send a letter/Email very soon of our concerns to Our Pope, with a CC to many including those names I mention above along with others that we deem appropriate.

The issues that I feel strong about is the restoration of the Latin Mass along with all that goes with it. Restore the altar facing East when possible, the Priest facing Jesus along with the Congregation, Communion on the tongue while at the Communion rail. No sign of peace, no hand shaking, Veils or head coverings on the females, conversion of sinners including conversion of non Catholics to the One true Church etc etc. Teach the Catholic faith in the tried and true Catechisms of the past. There can be no gag order, no acceptance of watered down or comprimised doctrine or Ex Cathedra teachings. No freedoms of expression or personal style in the liturgy. If the mass must be said in the vernacular, it already exists in the daily missal of Saint Joseph opposite the Latin text.

I pray our Pope be strong in mind and health and have a long life. I remain His obedient servant. My prayer is for our next Pope to be Pope Pius XIII or the like.



JMJ,

George





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Re: Does regularization in the Church mean a gag order?

Post  otremer6 on Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:29 pm

Do you really think that the SSPX either has to be silent or won't be silent about the question of the Vatican documents when Rome has already admitted that the documents may be criticized?

Hmm?

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Re: Does regularization in the Church mean a gag order?

Post  columba on Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:32 pm

otremer6 wrote:Do you really think that the SSPX either has to be silent or won't be silent about the question of the Vatican documents when Rome has already admitted that the documents may be criticized?

Hmm?

Apologies for the late reply.
From what I've read or rather what comments have beem made thus far would indicate that the SSPX can (behind closed doors) criticize Vat2 documents but not publicly. They would be ultimately in the same position as the FSSP whereby they can pivately have their own misgivings but not inform the faithful of such.
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Re: Does regularization in the Church mean a gag order?

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