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Contraceptives: a question...

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Contraceptives: a question...

Post  Allie on Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:36 pm

I have been having a lovely, little chat on Facebook tonight with a lady (and a few others) who basically hates the Catholic Church and wants to throw in the sex abuse scandal as a reason the government is justified with the HHS Mandate... so during this exchange another lady asked the question "What about women who are on birth control for medical reasons and not for sexual reasons? Should they not be allowed access to medication just because another use is to keep a woman from getting pregnant?"

So, clearly this is faulty reasoning from several points of view ... and I know that contraceptives are an intrinsic evil and therefore cannot be used for any reason...but do we have any definitive statements from the Church on this particular issue; or any good commentary that any of you all know of on this particular scenario that I could touch on in my response to her?

I would not continue this exchange; however, I think that this is an important question to answer for those who are reading and will try to use this as a reason to weasel around the issue (and those who truly want to know the answer).

Hope everyone is doing well (and btw I'm a little shocked to find out that MRyan/Mike is not the Pope... Laughing )

God bless!
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Re: Contraceptives: a question...

Post  Jehanne on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:03 pm

Contraceptives are completely licit and moral, if you completely, totally, and absolutely abstain!! If not, at least use some "aggressive NFP," to prevent a conception which results in abortion from the contraceptive.
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Re: Contraceptives: a question...

Post  Allie on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:32 pm

Jehanne wrote:Contraceptives are completely licit and moral, if you completely, totally, and absolutely abstain!! If not, at least use some "aggressive NFP," to prevent a conception which results in abortion from the contraceptive.


ummmm..... scratch

You didn't actually read my OP, did you, Jehanne...lol
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Re: Contraceptives: a question...

Post  Jehanne on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:38 pm

I read it, all of it. (I was, of course, not addressing you personally!)
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Re: Contraceptives: a question...

Post  Allie on Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:58 am

I am going to go ahead and post this exchange if anyone is interested...please excuse some of my poor word choices/spelling/grammar errors- I heard my timer going off for dinner and was trying to type as fast as I could before dinner burned.


>>LKS: Dear Catholic Church - it would be nice if you would spend half the energy that you waste on fighting paying for the pill and use it on investigating molestation cases. Thanks - me

>>MS: No doubt. Or hey - how about first try to convince your own followers to follow what you're preaching before trying to roll out your artificial "morality" to the rest of us?

>>ST: Catholicism's tag line should be "do as I say, not as I do"

>>me: First off, sexual abuse is abhorrent...the Church is and should be held to a higher standard. But you should also give credit where credit is due- the Church has done more than any other institution to make the Churches and schools and any other Catholic programs safe for children( and go ahead an look up the facts- it has done more than any other institution in this regard.) Not to mention do you say the same for the teachers, coaches, parents, boy scout leaders protestant ministers, etc that committed the heinous crime of sexual abuse? or is it only acknowledged when it is the Catholic Church..

>>MS: What other institution has been shown to have repeatedly, on a world-wide basis for at least 60+ years covered up, denied, threatened witnesses, and shifted around personnel, all in a systematic fashion, the criminal acts of their personnel in the most trusted and near "god-like" roles, with such system and actions/inactions approved by management of such institution all the way up to the chief executive officer, to facilitate sexual abuse of children?

>>me: Second, the Catholic Church DOES preach and teach that birth control is an intrinsic evil...so therefore, you have a problem with it holding to it's own teaching when it comes to the government forcing it to violate this teaching. Besides, why should the Church be forced to pay for contraceptives when you can just go down to your "friendly" Planned Parenthood and pick up your "free" taxpayer funded birth control (or hey an abortion if need be)... Catholics can choose to violate the Church's teaching on contraceptives and abortions- but it is only themselves and society that they are hurting. It is not a teaching meant to impose control on women, it is actually looking out for the dignity of women and their health. I would highly suggest you read Humanae vitae http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html and please do tell me if what Pope Paul 6th predicted would occur in society has or has not occurred...Also, please look up the horrible health problems associated with birth control and abortions, the environmental harm that birth control inflicts on our water supply ( male fish with eggs from estrogen, etc), and the overall degrading of women by men who will use a woman for his own pleasure now that he doesn't have to worry about getting a woman pregnant (or if she does get pregnant, get her an abortion).

>>MS: And yeah - I think any organization that is worried about who pays for birth control should instead focus their efforts on investigating molestation cases. And feeding starving children, and ending slavery around the world, and a whole lot of other more important issues.

>>MS: http://articles.cnn.com/2010-03-19/world/catholic.church.abuse_1_abusive-priests-church-abuse-archdiocese?_s=PM%3AWORLD

>>MS: Aha - now I see we're on to the real truth, we, as women, are not supposed to enjoy sex.

>>me: Mina- I don't mean to be rude, but it appears your hatred for the Catholic Church has blinded your ability to base your opinion off of facts... The Catholic Church IS the institution that has done more than any other in the world for the poor, the down-trodden, the hungry, the enslaved, the sick and any other group in need. It is truly disgusting what some members of the Church have done, but the Church does not TEACh that sexual abuse is acceptable. The priests and others who shamefully hurt children and covered it up have sadly given reason to people like yourself to not acknowledge the tremendous good that only the Catholic Church can provide for the world. Do not let the sins of a few influence you into hating the Church herself.

>>me: Now back to the issue at hand- we are talking about the intrusion of the government in tothe freedom of religion.... our 1st Amendment right. Are you saying that you do not care if the government is going against the law- the FIRST Amendment--- that is supposed to bind it from imposing on the free exercise of religion?

>>me: Mina- please read Humanae vitae and then tell me if the "real truth" is that women are not supposed to enjoy sex. I will be interested in your opinion...

>>DMS: Are you happy now Lisa!

>>JTR: What about women who are on birth control for medical reasons and not for sexual reasons? Should they not be allowed access to medication just because another use is to keep a woman from getting pregnant?

>>me: That is a fair question, but I would ask how did these women get their birth control BEFORE the government issued the HHS Mandate against the Catholic Church? No one is outlawing birth control, if a woman wants to use birth control that is her choice. However, the government IS mandating that the Church MUST pay for and provide birth control, sterilizations, and abortion coverage all things that the Church teaches and believes are intrinsic evils. May I also suggest to those women who are on the pill for health issues that they look into Naprotechnology to help treat whatever underlying condition may be affecting them. Often, birth control justs masks the issue instead of really looking at what is causing the issue...not to mention that there is a very high risk factor for high blood pressure, blood clots, strokes, and other adverse health problems associated with birth control use. I know several women who have been successfully treated for health issues using Naprotechnology and it didn't cause the side effects and potential health risks associated with the birth control pill.

>>SN: Thank you Lisa! Most people agree with this statement - I read it to a bunch of women - many Catholic and all agreed!!!

>>Dave: Allie, you are spreading misinformation at an incredible rate. Before you spew out more unsubstantiated scare tactics about contraception, I encourage you to ask your doctor for her/his opinion. Or, consult the position statements of organi...zations like the Institute of Medicine, the American Medical Association, or the American Congress of Obstetricians & Gynecologists.

Of course there are risks from contraception, but physicians and scientists have produced overwhelming evidence that birth control has significant health benefits for women and their families, is documented to significantly reduce health costs, and is the most commonly taken drug in America by young and middle-aged women. The proposed HHS rule will provide women with greater access to contraception by requiring coverage and by prohibiting cost sharing.

>>Dave: As for the baseless claim that the HHS rule violates the First Amendment, how would you feel about the implications of "religious freedom" in other instances? By your logic, would a Jehovah's Witness employer have the right to withhold medi...cal coverage for blood transfusions? Would a devout Muslim or Jew employer have the right to withhold coverage of a life-saving heart procedure involving porcine heart valves? Would a Christian Scientist have the right to withhold coverage of all medicines?

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Re: Contraceptives: a question...

Post  columba on Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:39 am

Allie wrote:
Also, please look up the horrible health problems associated with birth control and abortions, the environmental harm that birth control inflicts on our water supply ( male fish with eggs from estrogen, etc),

I read an article recently which quite convincingly showed a connection between estrogen contaminated water supplies and the staggering increase in male effeminacy, especially among pre-pubertal boys, (an age at which the psycological differences between both sexes usually becomes more apparent) where it has been found that in general these differences seem to be blurring.
I would hazard a guess that psycological conditioning via the media -which targets this age group in particular- has also something to do with it but if you combine that with the consumption of female harmones via the water supply it's not surprizing that these effects are now being seen.
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Re: Contraceptives: a question...

Post  George Brenner on Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:48 pm

The Magisterium

The Church also, fulfilling the role given it by Christ as the identifier and interpreter of apostolic Scripture and apostolic tradition, has constantly condemned contraception as gravely sinful.

In Humanae Vitae, Pope Paul VI stated, "[W]e must once again declare that the direct interruption of the generative process already begun, and, above all, directly willed and procured abortion, even if for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded as licit means of regulating birth. Equally to be excluded, as the teaching authority of the Church has frequently declared, is direct sterilization, whether perpetual or temporary, whether of the man or of the woman. Similarly excluded is every action which, either in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" (HV 14).

This was reiterated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: "[E]very action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible is intrinsically evil" (CCC 2370). "Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means . . . for example, direct sterilization or contraception" (CCC 2399).

The Church also has affirmed that the illicitness of contraception is an infallible doctrine: "The Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of contraception, that is, of every marital act intentionally rendered unfruitful. This teaching is to be held as definitive and irreformable. Contraception is gravely opposed to marital chastity, it is contrary to the good of the transmission of life (the procreative.aspect of matrimony), and to the reciprocal self-giving of the spouses (the unitive.aspect of matrimony); it harms true love and denies the sovereign role of God in the transmission of human life" (Vademecum for Confessors 2:4, Feb. 12, 1997).

I could also share my personal marriage experience if that would be needed or helpful.
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Re: Contraceptives: a question...

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