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SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

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SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  George Brenner on Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:18 pm

Holy week is upon us; a time for great reflection, prayer and soul searching and contemplate just how much Jesus means to us. I will resume after Easter.


The link below along with the comments show the great passion and heartfelt feelings of many on Society of St. Pius X. We may be on the brink of a very important event in Church history. We should pray very hard for our Holy Father.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.ca/2012/03/sspx-rome-holy-see-press-office.html





http://www.fatimaperspectives.com/sv/perspective620.asp




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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  George Brenner on Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:57 am


The now pending outcome in the SSPX and Vatican discussions represents a critical juncture in Church History. I have great pain when I think of the souls that have been effected by this and other ruptures over orthodoxy in Catholic Doctrine that have occurred over the last half century. What does Heaven think? It is no small matter that that the Society has chosen Saint Pius X as their namesake. I pray that Pope Pius X, Saint Vicar of Christ, Pope Pius X will hear the intercessions from those on earth to pray, help and put his loving spiritual arms around his counterpart, our current Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI. I pray that all may find truth for truths sake. I pray that the continuity of official Church teaching of past ages into the present will find clarity, reverence, discipline and agreement as Jesus wills for His One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. We implore the help of the Blessed Trinity, Blessed Mother and all the Angels and Saints.
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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  George Brenner on Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:10 pm

Help Needed !!!

I had a post prepared this morning to enter on the SSPX and the discussions with the Vatican on reconciliation. I had it entered in my e mails as I normally do before I copy and past; that way I can take my time and review for errors. You have my word that what I am telling you now is true and ask for some advise.

I copied and pasted as I normally do and went to preview to review before I sent it. I tweaked a few things, but came upon three words of significance that were in the post , that I at first thought was an error. I went back to the original post here to remove them but the three words are not there? I re entered the entire sentence and reviewed it and the three words are still in the ready to send version. I copied another completely different paragraph from a different topic to post as a test and it was fine. I closed down the laptop three times after deleting the post completely each time. I changed some of the sentences and the changes went through fine but each time that I reviewed the ready to send version the three words are there yet again.
I completely re did the entire post tweaking some sentences. I shut down my laptop again still thinking that I am somehow making the same error over and over again. But each and every time the three words appear in the ready to send post and not in the original. I thought that I would just wait to try it again this evening. I got my wife involved this time. I even tried to post under a different topic and different thread. Every re do that I try includes some new verbage and punctuation changes and yet even if I leave out the entire sentence where the three words appear, the ready to send version includes that full sentence with my different punctuation changes and some subtle other small changes and yet the three words always appear in the ready to send version but not in my orginal so that I can remove them.

Here is the Post:

'D' Day ?........./////

I believe that a major announcement might be very close on the SPPX and Vatican discussions for possible full reconciliation. I pray that the outcome is all that we have hoped and prayed for in this rupture. I do not fully understand the issues for they have been somewhat secretive. I can not truly comment in depth until I know more; if it is meant to be.
I am of the opinion that one issue is concerning the "No salvation outside the Catholic Church" as the Church officially defines and understands it. I believe that much there has been much discussion on the rigorist stance versus the possibilities of Invincible Ignorance, Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire as being "known" or "Unknown" on earth, and NOT as to whether the possibility exists as determined and judged by God and already agreed and accepted to by all concerned.
I believe that the Jewish Salvation issue is also contested. I sure got a lot more personal insight by watching Brother baptism of blood Fishman, a Jewish convert to Catholicism on youtube. It is six parts and well worth the viewing under, Jewish Roots of Catholicism. I have a very hard time understanding the new focus as Pope Benedict XVI is saying( non dogmatically) in His book, in that we should pray for the Jewish people rather than praying for their individual conversion directly. Being reactive rather than proactive in our approach to the Jews is difficult to understand. After listening to Brother baptism of blood Fishman and praying , I do feel that although, I can not get my arms around Jewish Salvation as explained in the Pope's book, that I have at least got my finger tips around their possible Salvation. The Brother explains that the Jews have been handed , have studied . guarded and Yentylsized the Wrapper of Salvation inside and out, but as Brother baptism of blood, the Jewish convert explains they have not accepted Jesus, the sweet and loving candy inside the wrapper as a people and this deeply hurts Jesus beyond earthly words; especially as the chosen people. He says the time will come when as a people they will accept the obvious and finally accept Jesus as the Son of God and Redeemer. Will it take the second coming? There is only one channel for Salvation and that is the Catholic Church.
One of the other issues might? be the pending Sainthood for Blessed Pope John Paul II and the "fast track" to Sainthood for other recent Popes during an especially very dark time in Church history. These along with other issues may or may not be at point of decision and hopeful clarity and visibility. We are not or at least should never be a secret society !

As for all Catholics and non Catholics and certainly for my friends on this forum, I pray that truth and salvation may become reality for us all and all of those whose lives we touch. Eternity is a very long time.

Note: The words baptism of blood NEVER appear before Brother baptism of blood in ANY of my original posts !

JMJ,

George
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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  MRyan on Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:25 am

George,

You are not going insane, and your computer is not possessed with the “baptism of blood” demon.

Rasha programmed it so that certain common acronyms are automatically spelled out, such as the three letter acronym for the "St. Benedict Center". That the three letter acronym for baptism of blood also happens to be the nickname for Robert can be a little annoying when using the nickname in a sentence only to see the person's name appear as, say, “baptism of blood Sungenis”.

The only solution is to avoid the nickname and use “Robert”.

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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  George Brenner on Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:45 pm


Mike,

As always, thank you very much. I knew that you would probably be the answer man.

JMJ,

George
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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  columba on Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:47 pm

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/04/for-record-latest-tornielli-fellays.html

####s: the positive response has arrived

17.09.2012 (1900 GMT - 2100 Rome)




The Superior of the Society of Saint Pius X has signed the doctrinal preamble proposed by the Holy See, even if with some slight modifications




ANDREA TORNIELLI

CITTÀ DEL VATICANO

The response of the Society of Saint Pius X has arrived in the Vatican and it is positive: according to the informal information gathered by Vatican Insider, Bishop Bernard Fellay would have signed the doctrinal preamble that the Holy See had proposed last September as a condition to reach full communion and canonical regularization.

An official confirmation of the received response should take place in the next few hours. From what has been learned, the text of the preamble sent by Fellay proposed some non-substantial modifications regarding the version delivered by the Vatican authorities: as it may be recalled, the same Ecclesia Dei Commission had not willed to make the document (of [only] two, yet complex, pages) public, precisely because the possibility remained of introducing eventual small modifications which would not, nonetheless, distort its meaning.

The preamble contains, subtantially, the "professio fidei", the profession of faith [Rorate note 1] required of those who are put in charge of an ecclesiastical position. And it thus establishes a "religious submission of will and intellect" be given to the teachings that the Pope and the College of Bishops "enunciate when they exercise their authentic Magisterium", even if not proclaimed and defined in a dogmatic sense, as in the case of the greater part of the magisterial documents. The Holy See has mentioned repeatedly to her partners in the Society of Saint Pius X that signing the doctrinal preamble would not mean putting and end "to the legitimate discussion, study, and theological explanations of specific expressions or formulations present in the documents of the Second Vatican Council."

The text of the preamble, with the modifications proposed by Fellay, and signed by him as Superior of the Society of Saint Pius X, will be presented to Benedict XVI, who, on the day following his 85th birthday and on the even of the seventh anniversary of his election, receives a positive response from the ####s. A response long expected and desired by him, who, in the next few weeks, will put an end to the wound opened in 1988 with the illegitimate episcopal ordinations celebrated by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

It is not ruled out that Fellay's response be examined by the Cardinals of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in the next "Feria Quarta" [Wednesday] meeting, which should take place in the first half of May. Meanwhile, some further weeks will be needed so that a canonical arrangement can be established: the most probable proposal is that of establishing a "personal prelature", a legal figure introduced in the Code of Canon Law in 1983 [Rorate note 2] and up to now used only by Opus Dei. The prelate depends directly of the Holy See. The Society of Saint Pius X will continue to celebrate Mass according to the ancient Missal, and to form its priests in its seminaries. [Source, in Italian]

Rorate note 1: Profession of faith, motu proprio Ad tuendam fidem, and CDF Doctrinal Commentary (1998)
Rorate note 2: actually first mentioned in an official ecclesial text in the very relevant n. 10 of the Decree on the Ministry and Life of Priests of the Second Vatican Council, ####orum Ordinis: "Present norms of incardination and excardination should be so revised that, while this ancient institution still remains intact, they will better correspond to today's pastoral needs. Where a real apostolic spirit requires it, not only should a better distribution of priests be brought about but there should also be favored such particular pastoral works as are necessary in any region or nation anywhere on earth. To accomplish this purpose there should be set up international seminaries, special personal dioceses or prelatures (vicariates), and so forth, by means of which, according to their particular statutes and always saving the right of bishops, priests may be trained and incardinated for the good of the whole Church."
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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  George Brenner on Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:51 pm

Thank you for the above post, Columba

With humility, We now must pray and wait the official statements from Our Holy Father at this milestone of his life. May Divine Grace flow to the Vicar of Christ and comfort Bishop Fellay so that Heaven will rejoice in the outcome. If this is the the case we can cry with tears of joy.
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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  MRyan on Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:44 am

The preamble contains, substantially, the "professio fidei", the profession of faith [Rorate note 1] required of those who are put in charge of an ecclesiastical position. And it thus establishes a "religious submission of will and intellect" be given to the teachings that the Pope and the College of Bishops "enunciate when they exercise their authentic Magisterium", even if not proclaimed and defined in a dogmatic sense, as in the case of the greater part of the magisterial documents. The Holy See has mentioned repeatedly to her partners in the Society of Saint Pius X that signing the doctrinal preamble would not mean putting and end "to the legitimate discussion, study, and theological explanations of specific expressions or formulations present in the documents of the Second Vatican Council."

Rorate note 1: Profession of faith, motu proprio Ad tuendam fidem, and CDF Doctrinal Commentary (1998)
As I’ve been saying, this is the non-negotiable factor that is and will continue to be the dividing line for certain SSPX types, especially those who see any “compromise” with Rome (the pope) short of full autonomy from the “Conciliar Church” as a betrayal to the “traditional” cause and to Ab Lefbvre.

See “"We are the guarantor of this ..." (http://catholicforum.forumotion.com/t271-we-are-the-guarantor-of-this)

As the sedevacantist owner of the “True Restoration” (oh please!) blogspot said:

Before I explain why I think there will finally be a deal, I want to point this out to those who consider themselves "true blue" SSPX: this is the logical consequence of recognizing this man as Pope. At some point, you will stop "negotiating" with the man you consider the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth and you will actually start doing what Catholics are supposed to do: obey him.
And:

For those of you who cannot see how you can reconcile yourselves to Vatican II and the New Mass coexisting within your Catholic universe, perhaps it might be time to call some things Catholic and some things what they are: not Catholic.

Then follow the consequences, wherever they lead you, no matter how frightening they be … ( http://truerestoration.blogspot.com/2012/04/quo-vadis-sspx-part-ii-reconciliation.html)

Columba, I think he’s talking to you.

George wrote:

With humility, We now must pray and wait the official statements from Our Holy Father at this milestone of his life. May Divine Grace flow to the Vicar of Christ and comfort Bishop Fellay so that Heaven will rejoice in the outcome. If this is the the case we can cry with tears of joy.
Amen.
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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  simple Faith on Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:14 am

If a reconciliation between the SSPX and the Vatican does occur, I'm going start my stopwatch to see how long it takes before someone accuses Bishop Fellay of being a Freemason imposter or that he was secretly replaced by a look-alike.
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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  columba on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:35 pm

Judge for yourself.
The first one was taken a few years ago. The second one was taken during the negotiations.



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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  columba on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:54 pm

I'm joking of course lest anyone takes the above post as for real. jocolor
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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  simple Faith on Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:10 pm

Too late for that Columba, Fatima has already posted it to the Dimond brothers and it's gone viral.
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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  George Brenner on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:56 pm

And so we continue to pray for Our Holy Father, as guided and protected by the Holy Ghost...... I know that some would disagree, but I am thankful that a public and open statement will be made known to all.


"It is good to guard the secret of a king, but glorious to reveal the works of God" (Tobit 12:11), Book of Tobias, pronounced canonical by the Council of Carthage of 397 and confirmed for Roman Catholics by the Council of Trent (1546).


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++




" From Rotate Caeli :
Communiqué of the General House of the Society of St. Pius X - SSPX to send statement to the Holy See [Updated]


The General Chapter of the Society of Saint Pius X ended this Saturday, July 14, 2012, in Econe (Switzerland). Gathered near Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s tomb, the capitularies have given thanks to God for the profound unity that prevailed among them during all these workdays.

The General Chapter will soon make a common statement to Rome, which will then be made public.

The General Superior, Bishop Fellay, thanks deeply all the priests and faithfuls for their fervent prayers during this chapter.

Ecône, July 14, 2012


JMJ,

George
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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  MRyan on Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:30 pm

George, wake me when something happens Smile
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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  Guest on Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:55 pm

I agree. In fact, I am sick of these news headlines that are announce that an agreement is imminent. Some articles I have seen made it seem like the agreement was going to happen next week or something.

It's just a ploy to get blog traffic, not that that's a bad thing in itself, but I am simply not interested in follow these Catholic National Enquirer news pieces all day every day. Maybe once in awhile.

I think there comes a time when you just have to take all the knowledge of the faith that you have and use it to actually live your life.

Guest
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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  MRyan on Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:05 pm

Hmmm ... that was a bit severe, though I can appreciate the sentiment behind it.

One can always just ignore the chattering frenzy which is generally confined to a few pro-SSPX sites, no? When something of real substance happens, which we all hope will be soon realized (well, not the liberals), we'll know it about soon enough.

I check in with Rorate on a regular basis just too see if there is any breaking news. I don't have to read the hundreds of comments which seem to always follow every non-event.






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Re: SSPX-ROME Holy See Communiqué: SSPX invited to "clarify" UPDATES: today's meeting; why the Pope will not give up

Post  MRyan on Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:52 pm

Speaking of which, from Rorate Caeli:



One day after the declaration was issued, and another leak of internal documents of the Society of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX), a letter sent to the District Superiors in the name of the Secretary General of the Society. It was first a PDF file, with an English file name, generated in the exact same kind of machine identified by Angelqueen in this post, that was then placed in a Mexican forum; then, the images of its pages were posted in an Argentine blog. The Anglophone connection did not disappear because of this, naturally.

This is just too much, and we will not post its contents, that included a summary of the General Chapter and some self-imposed conditions for a canonical regularization of the SSPX, nothing spectacularly different from what is already known, just listed in a structured fashion. Someone else may post it, but we in Rorate are just tired of this, we do not want to be a part of it. Enough.

It is disheartening to see once again that a society of traditional priests cannot keep a secret for more than 48 hours. May God have mercy on us.
Indeed.
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