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Methodist-Catholic Dialogue Issues Statement on Connection Between Eucharist, Environmental Stewardship

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Methodist-Catholic Dialogue Issues Statement on Connection Between Eucharist, Environmental Stewardship

Post  Guest on Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:51 pm

Rolling Eyes

http://www.usccb.org/news/2012/12-070.cfm
WASHINGTON—Both Methodists and Catholics believe their celebration of the Eucharist helps them to see God’s glory in all of creation and therefore leads to greater care for the environment, according to a new joint statement produced by the United States dialogue between the United Methodist Church (UMC) and the Catholic Church. The statement, “Heaven and Earth are Full of Your Glory,” was issued April 20, ahead of the traditional observance of Earth Day.

Bishop William Skylstad, retired bishop of Spokane, Washington, and Methodist Bishop Timothy Whitaker of the UMC Florida Conference co-chaired the dialogue.

Gathering semiannually between the fall of 2008 and summer 2011, the seventh round of the Methodist-Catholic dialogue sought to build on the newfound unity between the UMC and the Catholic Church when the Methodists signed onto the Catholic-Lutheran Joint Declaration on Justification—an agreement dispelling the centuries-old disagreement on how people are made just before God—in 2006. The dialogue partners agreed to explore a major issue affecting the common good and chose environmental stewardship.

“We call both Methodists and Catholics to participate more deeply in the Eucharist by recognizing its intrinsic connection with the renewal of creation,” the statement said. “The Eucharist is regarded as the central form of Christian worship because it orchestrates all that humans are and can be on this earth—our senses, abilities, talents, gifts, and intelligence—and offers them back to God the Father in thanksgiving for the Paschal victory of his Son.”

The statement notes that elements of nature—grain for bread and grapes for wine—become part of salvation through the Eucharist and that salvation itself is an act of God at work in all of creation and all creation encountering God. This has implications for believers in their relationship with God’s creation in the environment.

Catholic participants in the dialogue included Jesuit Father Drew Christiansen, editor of America Magazine; Msgr. Kevin Irwin, dean of the School of Theology and Religious Studies at The Catholic University of America in Washington; Connie Lasher, Ph.D., Santa Clara University in Santa Clara, California; and Angela Russell Christman, Ph.D., of Loyola College in Baltimore. Methodist participants included Sondra Wheeler of Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington; Karen Westerfield Tucker of Boston University School of Theology; Kendall Soulen of Wesley Theological Seminary; Edgardo Colon-Emeric of Duke University Divinity School in Durham, North Carolina; L. Edward Phillips of Emery University in Atlanta; and Glen Alton Messer II, Ph.D., the assistant general secretary of the General Commission on Christian Unity and Interreligious Concerns of the UMC.
Actual document here: http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/dialogue-with-others/ecumenical/methodist/upload/Heaven-and-Earth-are-Full-of-Your-Glory.pdf

Methodists do not believe in the Real Presence of Our Lord in the Eucharist, nor do they have the means to confect the Sacrament... scratch

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Re: Methodist-Catholic Dialogue Issues Statement on Connection Between Eucharist, Environmental Stewardship

Post  MRyan on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:59 pm

MarianLibrarian wrote: Rolling Eyes

Actual document here: http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/dialogue-with-others/ecumenical/methodist/upload/Heaven-and-Earth-are-Full-of-Your-Glory.pdf

Methodists do not believe in the Real Presence of Our Lord in the Eucharist, nor do they have the means to confect the Sacrament... scratch
Actual document:

As we present this agreed statement, we realize only too well its limitations. We aimed to frame the statement according to the historic liturgy of both churches. In doing so we respected the ancient axiom, lex orandi, lex credendi ("what the church prays is what the church believes"). Al the same time we also fully realize that this statement does not reflect the breadth of what either church holds to be the total content of its Eucharistic belief or practice. Catholics and United Methodists will not find in this text all of their Churches' pivotal theological understandings of what the Eucharist is and does. But in the end we judged that our mandate was more focused and precise. This agreed statement is modest, focused, grounded in what we can say together and what we could say to each other. Our task was to put these two rich traditions in dialogue and to discuss them in words and to pray about them together in the Liturgy of the Hours and the Eucharist (experiencing painfully the lack of full communion which prohibits intercommunion). No document can say everything, especially an ecumenical document of this sort. All such ecumenical documents are a work in progress about the topic(s) at hand and about the movement to grow together in faith and practice with the eventual goal that "all may be one." We submit this text to the faithful of both our churches for their consideration in the hope that it will elicit prayerful and critical discussion not only about out differences but also about how much we share as Christians.
Nothing like a little context; wouldn't you say, M-L?

But, that's OK, more "heresy" and "apostasy" fodder for the likes of Ffot and columba.





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Re: Methodist-Catholic Dialogue Issues Statement on Connection Between Eucharist, Environmental Stewardship

Post  simple Faith on Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:23 pm

Ah Mike, why do you always have to go and put things in context and spoil a more exciting conspiracy theory?
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Re: Methodist-Catholic Dialogue Issues Statement on Connection Between Eucharist, Environmental Stewardship

Post  Guest on Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:40 pm

MRyan,

I did read the document... Surely even you can see that the Methodist idea of 'eucharist' is vastly different (and even irreconcilable) with the Catholic Eucharist. The Catholic Sacrament of the Most Holy Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. The Methodist 'eucharist' is not even close.

Sure, they issued a disclaimer, but it fails to even address that Catholics and Methodists mean two completely different things in referencing the Eucharist. Catholic Churches have the authority and power to confect the Sacrament, Methodist communities do not... Do Methodists worship their 'eucharist'? No.

Catholics have the Body of Our Lord, Methodists have mere bread. Yes, Our Lord did unite Himself to ordinary bread and wine--but only in the Catholic Church. Wink

I fail to see the meaning of this statement-- the Methodists still go off without the true Eucharist.

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Re: Methodist-Catholic Dialogue Issues Statement on Connection Between Eucharist, Environmental Stewardship

Post  columba on Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:27 pm

MRyan wrote:
Nothing like a little context; wouldn't you say, M-L?

But, that's OK, more "heresy" and "apostasy" fodder for the likes of Ffot and columba
.

Thanks Mike for sortin' that out. (Can we fix it? Yes we can!)

But what about him having wreaked havoc in the Church? Does that still stand?
And what about St Pope Pius X condemnation of Modernism? Was this not precisely the kind of activity he was condemning? Or doesn't that matter anymore?
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Re: Methodist-Catholic Dialogue Issues Statement on Connection Between Eucharist, Environmental Stewardship

Post  DeSelby on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:35 pm

Continuing with what MarianLibrarian was saying, there's this...

From the United Methodist Church web page (http://www.umc.org):

When the Methodist movement in America became a church in 1784, John Wesley provided the American Methodists with a liturgy and a doctrinal statement, which contained twenty-four "Articles of Religion" or basic statements of belief. These Articles of Religion were taken from the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England—the church out of which the Methodism movement began—and had been the standards for preaching within the Methodist movement. When these articles were voted on by the American conference, an additional article was added regarding the American context, bringing the total number of articles to 25.

These articles became the basic standards for Christian belief in the Methodist church in North America. First published in the church's Book of Discipline in 1790, the Articles of Religion have continued to be part of the church's official statement of belief.

And from the pertinent "articles":

Article XVI—Of the Sacraments

Sacraments ordained of Christ are not only badges or tokens of Christian men's profession, but rather they are certain signs of grace, and God's good will toward us, by which he doth work invisibly in us, and doth not only quicken, but also strengthen and confirm, our faith in him.

There are two Sacraments ordained of Christ our Lord in the Gospel; that is to say, Baptism and the Supper of the Lord.

Those five commonly called sacraments, that is to say, confirmation, penance, orders, matrimony, and extreme unction, are not to be counted for Sacraments of the Gospel; being such as have partly grown out of the corrupt following of the apostles, and partly are states of life allowed in the Scriptures, but yet have not the like nature of Baptism and the Lord's Supper, because they have not any visible sign or ceremony ordained of God.

The Sacraments were not ordained of Christ to be gazed upon, or to be carried about; but that we should duly use them. And in such only as worthily receive the same, they have a wholesome effect or operation; but they that receive them unworthily, purchase to themselves condemnation, as St. Paul saith.

Article XVII—Of Baptism

Baptism is not only a sign of profession and mark of difference whereby Christians are distinguished from others that are not baptized; but it is also a sign of regeneration or the new birth. The Baptism of young children is to be retained in the Church.

Article XVIII—Of the Lord's Supper

The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another, but rather is a sacrament of our redemption by Christ's death; insomuch that, to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith receive the same, the bread which we break is a partaking of the body of Christ; and likewise the cup of blessing is a partaking of the blood of Christ.

Transubstantiation, or the change of the substance of bread and wine in the Supper of our Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ, but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.

The body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten in the Supper, only after a heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper is faith.

The Sacrament of the Lord's Supper was not by Christ's ordinance reserved, carried about, lifted up, or worshiped.

Article XIX—Of Both Kinds
The cup of the Lord is not to be denied to the lay people; for both the parts of the Lord's Supper, by Christ's ordinance and commandment, ought to be administered to all Christians alike.

Article XX—Of the One Oblation of Christ, Finished upon the Cross

The offering of Christ, once made, is that perfect redemption, propitiation, and satisfaction for all the sins of the whole world, both original and actual; and there is none other satisfaction for sin but that alone. Wherefore the sacrifice of masses, in the which it is commonly said that the priest doth offer Christ for the quick and the dead, to have remission of pain or guilt, is a blasphemous fable and dangerous deceit.

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Re: Methodist-Catholic Dialogue Issues Statement on Connection Between Eucharist, Environmental Stewardship

Post  MRyan on Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:08 pm

MarianLibrarian wrote:MRyan,

I did read the document... Surely even you can see that the Methodist idea of 'eucharist' is vastly different (and even irreconcilable) with the Catholic Eucharist. The Catholic Sacrament of the Most Holy Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. The Methodist 'eucharist' is not even close.
No kidding. Who suggested otherwise?

MarianLibrarian wrote:Sure, they issued a disclaimer, but it fails to even address that Catholics and Methodists mean two completely different things in referencing the Eucharist. Catholic Churches have the authority and power to confect the Sacrament, Methodist communities do not... Do Methodists worship their 'eucharist'? No.
No, it did suggest that our respective doctrines are not the same, without going into the theological understanding of what the Eucharist means and IS for each:

As we present this agreed statement, we realize only too well its limitations. ... At the same time we also fully realize that this statement does not reflect the breadth of what either church holds to be the total content of its Eucharistic belief or practice. Catholics and United Methodists will not find in this text all of their Churches' pivotal theological understandings of what the Eucharist is and does.
MarianLibrarian wrote:Catholics have the Body of Our Lord, Methodists have mere bread. Yes, Our Lord did unite Himself to ordinary bread and wine--but only in the Catholic Church. Wink

I fail to see the meaning of this statement-- the Methodists still go off without the true Eucharist.
The meaning is: Methodists also believe that that Christ unites Himself to ordinary bread and wine; but yes, only in the Catholic Church does is this unity a true transubstantiation; and yes, "Methodists still go off without the true Eucharist."

Who suggested otherwise? They believe they receive Christ in the Eucharist, but they cannot receive Him in His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

No argument from this end.
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Re: Methodist-Catholic Dialogue Issues Statement on Connection Between Eucharist, Environmental Stewardship

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