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My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

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My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Jehanne on Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:07 pm

The only sacrament my daughter ("Samantha") has had is Baptism. She's been attending Mass now for many years and wishes to be confirmed. I can not, however, find a bishop, priest, etc. who is willing to confirm Samantha without going through the standard catechetical programs. In my diocese (the Archdiocese of Dubuque), all the parishes around me are modernistic (as far as I can tell); they don't even use the current Catechism of the Catholic Church as part of any of their programs, so far as I know. One girl whom Samantha goes to high school with professes Catholicism and is openly pro-choice, and her mother, also pro-choice, is a catechist at one of the local parishes.

The SSPX has been unwilling to help-out here (I spoke with one of their priests a couple of times about it); the same is true of Christ the King. No other helpful advice from some "other" traditionalists (whose names I will not mention), also.

Any advice which you can offer will be most appreciated. I've asked Samantha to read the Roman Catechism (which I bought for her to read on her iTouch), as well as the current Catechism (which is, of course, freely available online.) Eventually, we may have to "bit the bullet" and simply have her sit through some modernist program taught by some heretic nun. This is something that I am definitively not looking forward to!

Any options which you can give me would be most helpful! I have four other children, by the way, so hopefully, I can find a path into the Church for all of them.
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  MRyan on Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:00 pm

Jehanne wrote:The only sacrament my daughter ("Samantha") has had is Baptism.

Jehanne,

Surely your daughter has received the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Penance)?

I know your angst. But, as you are responsible for the faith formation of your daughter, I would think that you would have no problem supplementing your daughter’s mandatory Confirmation instruction with your own instruction. As a parent, you have every right and the duty to review the course material, and to review with your daughter what is taught in class.

I encourage the parents of my students to do the same, and to approach me at any time about the curriculum (which I am supplementing). The curriculum is set by the diocese, and, while that may not ease your angst, you should not have to worry about heresy.

Please meet with the assigned teacher and let him/her know of your concern for orthodoxy, without setting up a confrontation by which your daughter is placed in a difficult situation. Who knows, you may be pleasantly surprised, even if not wholly impressed. Most teachers mean well, but many are themselves the products of poor catechesis.

Bite the bullet, and let your daughter be a shining example to the other students. I’m sure she is far ahead of the others.

I’ve had to start from scratch with my 8th grade class, most of whom have no idea what is in the CCC. In a way that’s a good thing, we get to start with a clean slate. But I know one thing, when they prepare for Confirmation next year, they’ll be ready.

If there were a CCD teacher in my parish who was openly pro-choice, I’d approach the DRE and the pastor to have that person removed. If that didn’t work, I’d file a complaint with the Bishop and, if that didn’t work, I’d quit and seek another parish after warning all the other teachers and the parents of my students.

I'd raise a stink; that’s the kind of scandal no Catholic should have to put up with when entrusting their children to parish RE teaches.

Good luck.



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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  columba on Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:53 pm

Jehanne,
I can't offer any advice but I will offer prayers.
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  RememberGethsemane on Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:51 am

Here's an answer to your major issue.. The confirmation of your daughter will be done correctly with a few prayers to Our Lady, trying to make it the focus of your life like it is all that matters to you is beneath ridicule, she is but ONE person in the church, but off course her confirmation is more important than anyone else's because she's more special as she's your daughter. There are more important issues going on around you that need sincere attention and prayer. Now accept your answer.

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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  MRyan on Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:40 am

Yes, Jehanne, seeking to have your daughter Confirmed in the Church by a validly and licitly ordained Bishop “is beneath ridicule”; why, just ask our Blessed Mother to have her confirmed and presto, your prayers will be answered and your daughter will be confirmed "correctly".

Yes, he actually said "correctly".

Stop being so selfish, your daughter is just one person.

Why did the SSPX turn you down, aren't they performing illicit Confirmations anymore? Where does your daughter go to Mass?

Confirmation Guidelines

Archdiocese of Dubuque

Catechetical Principles


The following principles describe catechesis leading to the ongoing conversion of the candidate as well as the community:

The parent or guardian as primary educator of his or her child is supported throughout the confirmation process (General Directory for Catechesis, 226).

• A basic understanding of all the sacraments is an essential component in catechetical preparation for confirmation.

• Systematic catechesis includes the six tasks from the General Directory for Catechesis.

• In addition to systematic catechesis, a process of immediate preparation for
confirmation is to be provided in the parish.

• Following the celebration of the sacrament, parishes provide ongoing catechesis and enrichment for mystagogy.

Six Tasks of Catechesis

1. Knowledge of the faith
2. Liturgical education
3. Moral formation
4. Teaching to pray
5. Education for community life
6. Missionary initiation

General Directory for Catechesis
(http://www.arch.pvt.k12.ia.us/YAC/documents/ConfirmationGuidelines.pdf)
Jehanne wrote:

In my diocese (the Archdiocese of Dubuque), all the parishes around me are modernistic (as far as I can tell); they don't even use the current Catechism of the Catholic Church as part of any of their programs, so far as I know.
In other words, you don't know because you haven't bothered to find out. I'm willing to bet you that they do in fact "use the current Catechism of the Catholic Church as part of any of their programs", for as far as I know all of the diocesan approved religious education books (Loyala, Ignatius or other; and I have the first two for 8th grade) and syllabuses make specific chapter and verse references to the CCC throughout.

Jehanne wrote:

Eventually, we may have to "bit the bullet" and simply have her sit through some modernist program taught by some heretic nun.
That's the spirit.













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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Jehanne on Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:55 am

Mike,

I went through RCIA in my deanery here 10 years ago, and no, they did not even reference the Catechism of the Catholic Church. As a matter of fact, the existence of the Catechism was never even mentioned by any of the RCIA instructors, all of whom were into Rudolph Bultmann, Raymond Brown, Karl Rahner, etc. I ended up buying my own copy of the Catechism (from Amazon, as I recall) and brought it to my RCIA class. This was the very first instance when any of my fellow classmates had any contact with the Catechism.

Eventually, I quit the program at my "home" parish (All Saints Catholic Church) and re-enrolled at the Basilica of Saint Francis Xavier in Dyersville, Iowa, which involved a 40 mile drive each way. (One night I almost died on the way home while driving in a blizzard.) On my first class at the Basilica, the priest instructing us gave each student a softbound copy of the Catechism, so I found myself with a second copy, which I have since given to my children. Also, they gave all of us a very traditional book called "Father Smith Instructs Jackson," which was the basis of all of our catechetical instruction. Later on, I was confirmed into the Church, as was my wife (who was baptized as a Catholic but never, of course, confirmed), and we were "remarried" at the Basilica (after eloping some years earlier after our families were openly fighting over the costs of our "future" wedding, which was going to amount to only a few thousand dollars.)

On the advice of my wife (duh!), we are going to have my daughter have her first confession and communion and worry about her being confirmed later on. I am in touch with some individuals who are going to help us out.
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  RememberGethsemane on Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:11 pm

Ahh sorry Jehanne, going by MR's rebuff to my advice, it may be better to read 6 of his essays and a bunch of books he might offer first before making a decision on it, after all Our Lady doesn't answer prayers for guidance anymore, at least not in a 'hey presto' timely fashion. So follow MR's path, but the only downside is that your daughter may be going on 20 by the time you get through it.

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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Jehanne on Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:21 pm

If she gets confirmed at age 20, so what? People like Mike live in a fantasy world; they think that the mainstream Church is orthodox and it is anything but. Countless surveys have shown that less than 10% of all individuals who identify themselves as "Catholic" accept fully all of the Catholic Church's teachings. Dissent is also widespread among ordained priests (including, some bishops and cardinals), religious, and catechetical instructors.
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  MRyan on Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:55 pm

Jehanne wrote:If she gets confirmed at age 20, so what?
So what? Then why ask for advice if you really don't want any?

Funny when the so-called "independents" have to come to grips in situations like this when their children ask to be Confirmed and when the "independent" route of an illicit bishop is not open to them, how they begin to whine that they might actually have to come in contact with all of those modernists and heretics in their local parish, and then ask for advice in a last ditch effort to seek another option.

That' right, Jehanne, when your daughter becomes a legal adult she can approach the Church on her own and without your permission to receptive Confirmation without having to go through a 9th grade class, and can explain to her parish priest why her father refused to have her Confirmed when she requested it.

No big deal.

People like Mike live in a fantasy world; they think that the mainstream Church is orthodox and it is anything but. Countless surveys have shown that less than 10% of all individuals who identify themselves as "Catholic" accept fully all of the Catholic Church's teachings.
Yeah, I live in the fantasy world while doing battle in the actual trenches. Go ahead and blame the "modernist Church" for your failure to take responsibility for your child's faith formation and her desire to receive the sacrament of Confirmation.

Please don't ask for advice again when all you can do is mock those who dare to tell you what you do not want to hear.

I went through RCIA in my deanery here 10 years ago, and no, they did not even reference the Catechism of the Catholic Church. As a matter of fact, the existence of the Catechism was never even mentioned by any of the RCIA instructors, all of whom were into Rudolph Bultmann, Raymond Brown, Karl Rahner, etc. I ended up buying my own copy of the Catechism (from Amazon, as I recall) and brought it to my RCIA class. This was the very first instance when any of my fellow classmates had any contact with the Catechism.
No doubt, but you haven't even checked with your local parish to review the course instruction or talk to the actual instructor responsible for Confirmation.

Btw, my wife (a former Lutheran) went through RCIA some years after we were married and I had to supplement every one of her classes with actual Church teaching - it was that bad.

If you had read your own diocese's "Confirmation Guidelines" you will have noticed that it makes specific and repeated reference to the Vatican's "General Directory for Catechesis", and, if you had read that document, you would have seen the central role the CCC takes in all local religious education programs.

That is no guarantee that a particular teacher will adhere to the guidelines of the diocese, but that's where you come in (if you actually wanted to take some responsibility).

I am in touch with some individuals who are going to help us out.
I hope one of them is Br. Andre - your MICM boss.









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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Jehanne on Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:07 pm

Mike,

We're registered at a parish within our deanery, and yes, people "window shop" for parishes all the time, and we did also. As for the M.C.I.M. (both of them, in fact), they use "outside" bishops, and not the ones governing their own dioceses to do their confirmations. And, as we have seen already, the confirmations given by the SSPX bishops are completely valid. So, I don't know what the "big deal" is here. Basically, I was asking for those of you "in the know" if you could share some "insider information" with me, say, a bishop who would be willing to confirm my daughter -- "Have Gun, will travel." (No, just kidding...it's an old western series, if you're wondering -- I don't own a gun!)

My "electronic senses" are kind of telling me that you (or, at least your keyboard) are getting a little "bent out of shape" over this one, much more than I am. I am glad that your beloved wife converted to the One True Faith & Church, "outside of which no one at all will be saved," but as you yourself acknowledge, you had to supplement her curriculum quite a bit. Easier to do, of course, with an adult than with a child or teenager, who sometimes have difficulty "thinking for themselves." One reason why I do not send any of my five children to any of the local Catholic schools, my desire being to see that they remain Catholic!

Thanks to everyone for "writing in," but I have had enough of this thread.
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  MRyan on Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:39 pm

Jehanne wrote:

As for the M.C.I.M. (both of them, in fact), they use "outside" bishops, and not the ones governing their own dioceses to do their confirmations. And, as we have seen already, the confirmations given by the SSPX bishops are completely valid. So, I don't know what the "big deal" is here.
Incorrect. Being in full communion with the Church, the M.C.I.M. in Still River does NOT use "outside" bishops, but does in fact use their own diocesan Bishop of Worcester, the Most Reverend Robert J. McManus, to administer Confirmation.

Here, for example, is part of the entry for “Confirmation at IHM”, posted on the St. Benedict Center (Still River) website in 2010 (http://www.saintbenedict.com/monastery/news-blog/140-confirmation-ihm.html):

On June 19 His Excellency, the Most Reverend Robert J. McManus, Bishop of Worcester, confirmed 40 young men and women at Immaculate Heart of Mary Chapel. The Chapel was filled to capacity, and the altar decked with vibrant roses, creating a resplendent sight as Bishop McManus and the confirmandi processed in. The choir sang the Veni Creator as the ceremony of Confirmation took place in the Latin Tridentine Rite. A stirring talk by Bishop McManus followed, in which he encouraged the Confirmants and Sponsors to fulfill their duties as Soldiers of Christ.
And as far as the St. Benedict Center, NH, I challenge you to produce the evidence (since 2010) that there have been any confirmations performed outside the authority and jurisdiction of Bishop McCormack, to whom Br. Andre (in October 2010) expressed his “gratitude … for approving our chapel as a place of Catholic worship and for allowing Father Phillipson to serve here.”

I am confident that Br. Andre would NOT go outside the authority and jurisdiction of the very Ordinary with whom he is seeking full communion. IF another Bishop came in within the last couple of years to administer Confirmation, he (or Father Phillipson) would have received permission from Bishop McCormack; otherwise, any talk of regularization would be dead.

In other words, I don’t think you know what you are talking about, but I challenge you to prove me wrong.

From the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia:

The bishop alone is the ordinary minister of confirmation. This is expressly declared by the Council of Trent (Sess. VII, De Conf., C. iii). A bishop confirms validly even those who are not his own subjects; but to confirm licitly in another diocese he must secure the permission of the bishop of that diocese. Simple priests may be the extraordinary ministers of the sacrament under certain conditions. In such cases, however, the priest cannot wear pontifical vestments, and he is obliged to use chrism blessed by a Catholic bishop.
Sure, SSPX are valid, and illicit. To the latter you say, “who cares”? Fine. Good luck finding an illicit Bishop to perform a valid Confirmation.

Jehanne wrote:

Thanks to everyone for "writing in," but I have had enough of this thread.
Good, so have we.

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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Jehanne on Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:02 pm

Mike,

The bishops of the SSPX are happy to give my daughter the Sacrament of Confirmation. Are you claiming that those Sacraments performed by the Society's bishops are invalid? If so, you are alone in making such a claim. As for the M.C.I.M in Still River, I stand corrected:

http://www.saintbenedict.com/monastery/newsletters/49-2012-newsletters/483-summer-fall2012.html

It's great to see that a group of Father Feeney's followers who are fully regularized within the Catholic Church and are using the traditional Mass and Sacraments of the Church! They teach the Limbo of the Children, also:

http://www.saintbenedict.com/apostolates/mancipia-press/8-pointpamphlet.html

We've considered moving to New Hampshire, but it's so far from our families.



Last edited by Jehanne on Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  tornpage on Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:03 pm

I just received the “From the Center” newsletter for Summer/Fall 2012. Bishop Robert McManus did the confirmations again on June 23, 2012 at Still River. I was going to look up Bishop McManus to see who he was, but Mike saved me the trouble.
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  MRyan on Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:37 pm

Jehanne wrote:
I am glad that your beloved wife converted to the One True Faith & Church, "outside of which no one at all will be saved," but as you yourself acknowledge, you had to supplement her curriculum quite a bit. Easier to do, of course, with an adult than with a child or teenager, who sometimes have difficulty "thinking for themselves."
I had no problem supplementing her faith formation – it’s my responsibility. Your response sounds like a cop-out. So I guess when your own diocese says “The parent or guardian as primary educator of his or her child is supported throughout the confirmation process”, you really can’t be bothered taking on such a responsibility.

Jehanne wrote:
The bishops of the SSPX are happy to give my daughter the Sacrament of Confirmation.
Of course they are; which is why you wrote:

The SSPX has been unwilling to help-out here (I spoke with one of their priests a couple of times about it); the same is true of Christ the King. No other helpful advice from some "other" traditionalists (whose names I will not mention), also.
Now that everyone is happy, you don’t need any advice; especially not the kind that recommends a licit Confirmation. My only mistake was actually thinking you were sincere in going the diocesan (licit) route. Obviously, you were not.

I won't make that mistake again.

Jehanne wrote:
Are you claiming that those Sacraments performed by the Society's bishops are invalid? If so, you are alone in making such a claim.
I never made that claim with respect to Confirmation (and you know it); only that their illicit Bishops, and their illicitly ordained priests, are without ordinary jurisdiction from the pope through his bishops. They were not “sent” by the Pope, and they were not “sent” by our Lord.

Sedevacante and Old Catholic bishops also confer valid Confirmations, so if the SSPX route doesn’t work out, you have other options outside of communion with the Catholic Church besides vagabond bishops who enter the jurisdictions of local Ordinaries to confer illicit Sacraments.

Jehanne wrote:
As for the M.C.I.M in Still River, I stand corrected:
Yes, you do; and you also stand corrected with respect to the St. Benedict Center, NH. As I said:

And as far as the St. Benedict Center, NH, I challenge you to produce the evidence (since 2010) that there have been any confirmations performed outside the authority and jurisdiction of Bishop McCormack, to whom Br. Andre (in October 2010) expressed his “gratitude … for approving our chapel as a place of Catholic worship and for allowing Father Phillipson to serve here.”
I’m still waiting for you to prove me wrong.

But that’s OK, like you said, you’re happy, so the world is happy – time to end this.
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Jehanne on Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:43 pm

Who cares? A priest from Christ the King said that he would confirm Samantha but that he wanted to meet with us for a "few days." I don't know that I can afford "a few days" in a hotel 200 miles away from my home with 5 kids and all. We'll keep looking, though.

Mike, stop acting like you own this board. You don't; it belongs to Rasha (wherever he may be at the moment.) I brought my concern to the forum in completely honesty and sincerity. If you can't respond positively to it, then don't.

As I said already, there are at least a few parishes in my diocese which appear to be orthodox. Perhaps it's time for some more "window shopping." However, we're "on a budget" here.
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:02 pm

How about insisting that you sit in on the classes with your daughter. That way you can know all they are teaching. You could even do it under the pretext of "helping out." Then you could refute any errors at home. At 15 years old your daughter is probably already aware that there is a crisis in the Church, no?

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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Jehanne on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:05 pm

Rasha,

You're back!! Yeah, that's an idea, and a great suggestion! I might (have my wife) do just that!!!
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:08 pm

Jehanne wrote:Who cares? A priest from Christ the King said that he would confirm Samantha but that he wanted to meet with us for a "few days." I don't know that I can afford "a few days" in a hotel 200 miles away from my home with 5 kids and all. We'll keep looking, though.

Does he have Skype?

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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Jehanne on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:18 pm

He probably has access to it. He's in Cashton, WI, and like nearly everywhere these days, they have high-speed Internet boradband up there:

http://www.institute-christ-king.org/cashton/

We thought about moving there, but things "fell through" this past summer. I corresponded with him on email a few times and that was the end of things. We'll probably move someday, but my daughter is now in high school, and it makes sense for her to graduate from the high school where she's attending. She wants to go to law school and moving around is probably going to be disruptive to her plans (which, like most youngsters will probably change), so as parents, we are trying to "be respectful" of her goals and ambitions.

Your original idea was, for me, completely novel, one which I never considered (reflecting on it, I suppose I should have!). I doubt that the parish which we are registered can say "no," either. I'll have my wife bring the "big green Catechism" along with a hardbound copy of the Roman Catechism. I think that they'll know that we "mean business."
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  MRyan on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:54 pm

Jehanne wrote:
Mike, stop acting like you own this board. You don't; it belongs to Rasha (wherever he may be at the moment.) I brought my concern to the forum in completely honesty and sincerity. If you can't respond positively to it, then don't.
And if you didn't want my advice, you should have said so up front. But no, you said you were considering "biting the bullet" and having your daughter go the local diocesan route, and I was only giving you advice (I teach these classes) on how to proceed - by getting involved.

You didn’t want to hear it.

I wish more parents got involved - but, they simply drop off the kids and we never hear from them again.

You response to my advice was to mock “People like Mike [who] live in a fantasy world; they think that the mainstream Church is orthodox and it is anything but.”

That’s a simple cop-out – you do this all the time. I live in the trenches, Jehanne, and I don’t run from the problems staring us in the face.

Jehanne, seriously, I don’t care if you go the SSPX route or any other illicit route.

And if you want to go parish/diocese shopping, go right ahead.

No more advice – we’re well past any “sincere” request for advice about “biting the bullet”. After all, if your daughter is 20 if and when she is confirmed, who cares?


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MRyan

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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Jehanne on Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:10 pm

MRyan wrote:No more advice – we’re well past any “sincere” request for advice about “biting the bullet”. After all, if your daughter is 20 if and when she is confirmed, who cares?

I do. (I don't expect you to.)
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  MRyan on Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:12 pm

Jehanne wrote:
MRyan wrote:No more advice – we’re well past any “sincere” request for advice about “biting the bullet”. After all, if your daughter is 20 if and when she is confirmed, who cares?

I do. (I don't expect you to.)

Sure you do, that why the other Jehanne wrote:

If she gets confirmed at age 20, so what?
Yeah, "so what".

Go back to sleep.



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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Jehanne on Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:22 am

You obviously don't get it.
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  columba on Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:36 am

Jehanne,

With regards to the education of children, within the Church -as a parent- your rights are protected and parents are recognized as being the primary educators of their children who can seek help from the Church especially concerning their religious fomation.

All helps provided by the Church are to be offered with the recognition that the parents themselves are the first educators of the children and their rights in this matter cannot be usurped by anyone. If parents aren't happy with the helps being provded they have a right (even a duty) to complain and have their concerns addressed.

The CCC has a lot to say on the subject. If you read from 2201 onward you should find the relevent passages.
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Jehanne on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:16 am

Thanks, Columba. That's fantastic advice; as I have myself discovered, the Catechism is full of little "nuggets" of information and doctrine, but at 800 or so pages, it is easy to forget some things or overlook them. I am at present reading the Roman Catechism in its entirety and it is much more direct and "to the point."

But, yes, I could certainly set some "ground rules" for the future catechises of my kids by saying things like, "Hey, I don't buy the scholarship of Rudloph Bultmann, or his 'progeny', such as the later Father Raymond Brown, and I hope that you at least respect that." Perhaps in Mike's parish, they do; perhaps not. Bultmann and Brown's ideas were cast as "the fundamental truth" in my first RCIA program. I will never forget how one instructor told our class how the Bible was "full of errors" or how another instructor, my future baptismal sponsor, told me that the Catholic Church was "just a human institution" which discriminated against women by not ordaining them to the Catholic priesthood. I even met with the parish priest about this, wrote a letter to the bishop (Archbishop Hanus), and even spoke with the vicar of the deanery, all of whom did nothing. We were also "warned" against watching EWTN, a cable channel which is blocked at the local "Catholic" hospital, even though it is offered completely for free to all cable providers everywhere.

It's little wonder why such individuals hold the dogma of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus in such low regard because it seems that they have no foundation for any of their "Catholic" beliefs.
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  columba on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:33 pm

Thanks, Columba. That's fantastic advice; as I have myself discovered, the Catechism is full of little "nuggets" of information and doctrine,

Your welcome Jehanne.

Yes, the CCC is full of orthodox Church teachings. It also has it's fair share of questionable stuff. It's a matter of taking what's orthodox and ignoring the rest, or, using whatever's contained there to one's own advantage (whether orthodox or not).
If they have given us (laity) plenty of rights...use them for the good as can be done in your case.
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Re: My 15-year old daughter wishes to be confirmed.

Post  Guest on Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:05 pm

This is the advantage of the Byzantine Tradition. Children get confirmation right after baptism. End of story....then you teach them your own catechism at home.

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