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The One True Church

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The One True Church

Post  George Brenner on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:29 pm

The latest poll conducted by Pew Research Stats on Catholics in questioning several thousand who identified themselves as ' Catholics ' showed that 18 % believed that the Catholic Church was the One True Church versus Jehovah Witnesses of which 80 % believed that their Church was the One True Church.


JMJ,


George



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Re: The One True Church

Post  RememberGethsemane on Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:31 am

Pointless statistics George. So if 80% had have said the Jewish faith is the true one would that have made an influence on your faith on any way?

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Re: The One True Church

Post  George Brenner on Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:10 pm

RememberGethsemane on Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:31 am
Pointless statistics George. So if 80% had have said the Jewish faith is the true one would that have made an influence on your faith on any way?
The One True Church

by George Brenner on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:29 pm
The latest poll conducted by Pew Research Stats on Catholics in questioning several thousand who identified themselves as ' Catholics ' showed that 18 % believed that the Catholic Church was the One True Church versus Jehovah Witnesses of which 80 % believed that their Church was the One True Church.

RG, Not pointless at all! The statistics have no effect on my Faith but the statistics most definitely show an enormous erosion of true Catholic belief in just the last fifty years for many would be Catholics.
Poor catechesis, abuse, lack of proper implementation in reverence and discipline. Call it what you want. Of course, each and every Catholic has a personal responsibility to fight for his or her Catholicism and soul and loyality to Church teaching.

JMJ,

George
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Re: The One True Church

Post  columba on Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:09 pm

George, it looks very much like we're witnessing the bad fruits of that kind of thinking condemned by Pius XII in Humani Generis where he states,
27. "Some say they are not bound by the doctrine, explained in Our Encyclical Letter of a few years ago, and based on the Sources of Revelation, which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing.[6] Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation. Others finally belittle the reasonable character of the credibility of Christian faith."

Unfortunately this kind of condemned thinking continues unabated. Where once we could rely on the Supreme Roman Pontiff to speak out against such erroneous distortions of truth, it happens that today the very popes themselves promote those same distortions of truth so thoroughly condemned by their predecessors.

Or, we could quote Pope Pius IX,
". . . for the union of [non-Catholic] Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it." (Mortalium Animos)
and compare that with the thinking of Fr. Joseph Ratzinger where he tells us in his book, Theological Highlights of Vatican II p. 73;

"[T]he recognition of a plurality of Churches within the Church implies two lines of change:

"(a) The Catholic has to recognize that his own Church is not yet prepared to accept the phenomenon of multiplicity in unity; he must orient himself toward this reality. He must also recognize the need for a thorough Catholic renewal (translation: revolution, Ed.), something not to be accomplished in a day. This requires a process of opening up, which takes time. Meantime, the Catholic Church has no right to absorb the other Churches. The Church has not yet prepared for them a place of their own, but this they are legitimately entitled to."

"(b) A basic unity – of churches that remain Churches, yet become one Church – must replace the idea of conversion, even though conversion retains its meaningfulness for those in conscience motivated to seek it."


If we answer the question honestly as to which view holds sway -from the top to the bottom- in the Church today , we will have no trouble understanding the reason for the current statistics.
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Re: The One True Church

Post  George Brenner on Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:30 pm

Columba,


Yes you are correct insofar as Our Catholic Church that we love has gone through very rough times the last half century or longer. Yes we have argued, and debated the reasons for the crisis in Faith. Yes, we have all posted warnings and prophecies about the dilution or weakening of our Faith and their validity. Yes it is hard to realistically discount them as absurd or the ramblings of poor or uninformed sources, especially when they come from Blessed Mother, past Popes, Cardinals and Saints etc. Yes, each age is different but as Father Faber says, souls are dying daily so no we cannot be in a holding pattern or moratorium on the necessity of the One , True Church as necessary for Salvation. Yes, when a patient says to me that since Vatican II that "we no longer have to worry about Purgatory" and I encounter continual misunderstandings and private interpretations on what must be believed, I certainly do deduce "our time for our souls" is much more risky then in the fifties and sixties. Back then you typically might hear from a Catholic that although they knew some teaching of the Catholic Church to be true that they chose not to follow it. Many and/or most Catholics do not know their faith. Many and/or most Catholics are not taught the Faith. Pre Vatican II was a much more favorable time for the Catholic Church. We all would have been much better off had VCII not occurred. I think where we differ Columba is that you feel compelled to interpret VCII to find cause for the crisis and I have come to the conclusion with prayer and help from many (Mryan) etc. that VCII is legitimate and protected from error by the Holy Ghost and the core of our Faith remains miraculously and supernaturally intact. Yes, I have doubts about some writings and actions which are not part of the deposit of Faith. Yes, I question the longevity about the crisis of Faith. But rather than condemn, question or feel that I personally must have an "Angies List" of those to blame( I am not taking about you, Columba but someone like ffot), I feel spiritually compelled to leave judgement at God's doorstep rather than attack "Peter" any more than Jesus did when the original Peter denied Him three times. Of course there is accountability for the mess we are in but I feel that we must spend "our" precious time in being part of the cure. Let the others not stay with Jesus in garden or complain how bad things are rather than counting our blessings. Let us stay with our Lord and do what we can by prayer, influence. truth , love and charity to show Jesus how much we love our faith. Pray constantly for our Church and that our Pope may be all that God wills him to be. There can me no eternal merit in attacking the Church or Pope and by living our faith we at the very same time defend it.


JMJ,

George
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