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Could the Magisterium be in doctrinal error before an excommunication?

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Could the Magisterium be in doctrinal error before an excommunication?

Post  Lionel Andrades on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:39 am

The Archbishops of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in interviews with the National Catholic Register have expressed the false premise.

They imply that the dead saved are visible. So they are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

So for them Vatican Council II contradicts the dogma on salvation and the Syllabus of Errors.They want to extend this irrationality, of the visible dead saved premise,to the SSPX.

Since their interpretation of Vatican Council II uses this irrationality, of being able to see cases of non Catholics saved with invincible ignorance and elements of sanctification etc, Vatican Council II emerges as non traditional.

They expect the SSPX to accept this non traditional interpretation or be penalized for being faithful to the Faith according to Tradition and the Magisterium of the past.

Can the Magisterium today teach that a defined dogma is contradicted by known exceptions? These exceptions are allegedly ghosts visible to us ?

Is this not heresy? Is the SSPX expected to accept this heresy?

Do the SSPX and other Catholics have to deny the Nicene Creed(I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sin).This would mean the Creed is interpreted as saying ,"I believe in three known baptisms for the forgiveness of sin, the baptism of water, desire and blood'.

Reason tells us that only the baptism of water is known.It is visible and can be repeated. We cannot administer the baptism of desire. The baptism of desire and blood are known only to God.

Since these cases are known only to God how can they contradict the dogma which says all need to convert into the Church to avoid Hell ? How can they contradict Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II which says faith and baptism are needed for all for salvation.

According to the CDF Archbishops Vatican Council II contradicts itself and it contradicts the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.It also contradicts the Magisterium of Pope John Paul II. The SSPX has to accept all this or be excommunicated ?

Lionel Andrades

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Re: Could the Magisterium be in doctrinal error before an excommunication?

Post  George Brenner on Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:58 pm

Hello Lionel,

As taken from : Our Lady of Guadalupe Friary

Jan 06 – Homily – Fr George: Epiphany, Baptism and No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church

This is a web site run by the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate in the United States. Our community is a Roman Catholic religious institute of pontifical rite. Our charism is founded on the spirituality of St. Maximilian Kolbe, which is both Franciscan and Marian.
The purpose of this site is to continue in the tradition of St. Maximilian and use the most modern means of communication to promote the welfare of souls by preaching the faith of the Church and making Our Lady known and loved.


Homily #130106 (19min) Play - On this Solemnity of the Epiphany of the Lord, Fr. George explains that God continues to reveal Himself to indifferent Catholics and to a world that doesn’t care about God or in His salvation that is found only through the Catholic Church. Ave Maria!


Lionel,


The issue that you have devoted much time, prayer and energy to on No Salvation outside the Catholic Church along with your tenacious efforts to secure proper Church teaching on Baptism that is accurately and divinely protected by the Holy Ghost in past and present Church teaching. The travesty as you know is that you along with countless others can ask the questions of those in Church authority who should lead us and there is either a pregnant pause, no answer or variety of "opinions" or worse incorrect understanding of Church teaching which has mislead the faithful. As you point out repeatedly the issue is very simple , just teach the truth with charity and love. You recognize VII as being in continuity with previous ages but seem to question as to whether the Church is teaching error. The Church is not teaching error but the silence and lack of clarification is tragic and obvious. For anyone that does the exercise in asking clerics you will readily see that some will say that the Church errored in teaching No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church, or look at you like you are either arrogant or from another planet or say yes but.... and continue with an explanation that reduces the formula to as Pope Pius XII said " some would reduce NSOCC to a meaningless formula" All the correct teaching are in the Church documents and Mageterium that are to be held as true by all. Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood are clearly contained in the deposit of faith and known to God's mercy alone. The Church recognizes these possibilities as truth not to be denied. But since Vatican II many/most/nearly all, take your pick have used these revealed mercies to be determined by God and transformed them into lack of proper catechesis by implying that conversion and teaching the absolute necessity of NSOCC and the necessity of Baptism by water as nothing more than a preferred belief at best rather than absolute and unwavering to the Catholic mission to teach the faith. We do share the same believes on some of the causes but let no one persecute or attack the Church itself. I firmly believe that Father Feeney fully acknowledged the unknown mercies of God but clearly saw the emmenient danger in not teaching the absolutes of our faith. If I could turn the clock back in the 'way back machine', I would have begged Pope John XXIII that if he felt the compulsion to open up the windows and doors to the fresh air to please,please first install screen doors, and screens windows. The crisis in the Church along with the rupture with SSPX will pass because as we both know the Church will always emerge triumphant. It might be better, Lionel to simply ask the questions to please explain with clarity the Church teaching on No Salvation outside the Catholic Church along with how faithful Catholics are to understand Baptism of water along with the defacto Church teaching on Baptism of Blood, Baptism of Desire and Invincible Ignorance. After all for anyone who seeks God with a sincere heart should they not be denied simple answers which are(along with many others not discussed here) at the core of our Faith.


Your friend,


JMJ

George


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Re: Could the Magisterium be in doctrinal error before an excommunication?

Post  George Brenner on Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:00 pm

Homily link from above post:

Jan 06 – Homily – Fr George: Epiphany and No ... - Ave Maria
airmaria.com/.../jan-06-homily-fr-george-epiphany-and-no-salvation...6 days ago – Homily #130106 ( 19min) Play - On this Solemnity of the Epiphany of the Lord, Fr. George explains that God continues to reveal Himself to. ... Bringing the Immaculate to the World .... Catholics and to a world that doesn't care about God or in His salvation that is found only through the Catholic Church. Ave ...


JMJ,


George

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George Brenner

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Re: Could the Magisterium be in doctrinal error before an excommunication?

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