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Fr. Paul Kramer infers cases of the baptism of desire are visible for us.So they are exceptions to the dogma for him
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Fr. Paul Kramer infers cases of the baptism of desire are visible for us.So they are exceptions to the dogma for him
Lionel Andrades Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:37 am
June 24, 2014
Fr. Paul Kramer infers cases of the baptism of desire are visible for us.So they are exceptions to the dogma for him.
Fr.Paul Kramer:
Refutation of the Heresy of Feeneyism 1
Dear Feeneyite,
You argue as one who has passed through Alice's looking glass into the irrational realm of the fairies. You stubbornly insist that doctrine of Baptism of Desire & Baptism of Blood is a "common error",
Lionel:
Yes, when it is inferred that the baptism of desire is objectively visible to us and then assumed to be an explicit exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is a common error.
No,when it is reasoned that the baptism of desire is not objectively visible to us.Since there are no known cases it cannot be an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.It does not contradict Fr.Leonard Feeney.
Fr.Paul Kramer:
and "heresy", that it offends against the dogma of nulla salus extra Ecclesiam (Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus), and has been infallibly condemned by the Council of Trent.
Lionel:
To infer that there are known exceptions to the thrice defined dogma is heresy.
Then to infer that these cases, invisible for us, are visible, is irrational and a falsehood.
Fr.Paul Kramer:
If that were indeed the case, then what would be the source of this heresy? The source of this "heresy" would be the writings of the Fathers & Doctors of the Church!
Lionel:
None of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church have said that the baptism of desire is explicit for us. Reason tells us that it is subjective, theoretical, accepted in principle or faith, only.
No Father or Doctor of the Church has said that the baptism of desire is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. It is a possibility but not an exception to the dogma.
Fr.Paul Kramer:
The worst propagators of this heresy would be the Doctors of the Church, -- and the popes who have either, 1) taught it explicitly, 2) formally approved of it by declaring the authors of this heresy to be Doctors of the Church, 3) by authorizing this heresy to be officially taught by the ordinary & universal magisterium throughout the world (especially in the catechisms and the sacred liturgy), and 4) by never having issued any explicit condennation of it...
Lionel:
They have not said that the baptism of desire is explicit.
-Lionel Andrades
1.
http://abplefebvreforums.proboards.com/thread/2609/fr-paul-kramer-on-feeneyism
Did Pope Pius XII make a mistake ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/did-pope-pius-xii-make-mistake.html#links
Did Pope Pius XII make a mistake ? : implicit desire, invincible ignorance have nothing to do with extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/did-pope-pius-xii-make-mistake-implicit.html#links
Fr. Paul Kramer infers cases of the baptism of desire are visible for us.So they are exceptions to the dogma for him.
Fr.Paul Kramer:
Refutation of the Heresy of Feeneyism 1
Dear Feeneyite,
You argue as one who has passed through Alice's looking glass into the irrational realm of the fairies. You stubbornly insist that doctrine of Baptism of Desire & Baptism of Blood is a "common error",
Lionel:
Yes, when it is inferred that the baptism of desire is objectively visible to us and then assumed to be an explicit exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is a common error.
No,when it is reasoned that the baptism of desire is not objectively visible to us.Since there are no known cases it cannot be an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus.It does not contradict Fr.Leonard Feeney.
Fr.Paul Kramer:
and "heresy", that it offends against the dogma of nulla salus extra Ecclesiam (Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus), and has been infallibly condemned by the Council of Trent.
Lionel:
To infer that there are known exceptions to the thrice defined dogma is heresy.
Then to infer that these cases, invisible for us, are visible, is irrational and a falsehood.
Fr.Paul Kramer:
If that were indeed the case, then what would be the source of this heresy? The source of this "heresy" would be the writings of the Fathers & Doctors of the Church!
Lionel:
None of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church have said that the baptism of desire is explicit for us. Reason tells us that it is subjective, theoretical, accepted in principle or faith, only.
No Father or Doctor of the Church has said that the baptism of desire is an exception to extra ecclesiam nulla salus. It is a possibility but not an exception to the dogma.
Fr.Paul Kramer:
The worst propagators of this heresy would be the Doctors of the Church, -- and the popes who have either, 1) taught it explicitly, 2) formally approved of it by declaring the authors of this heresy to be Doctors of the Church, 3) by authorizing this heresy to be officially taught by the ordinary & universal magisterium throughout the world (especially in the catechisms and the sacred liturgy), and 4) by never having issued any explicit condennation of it...
Lionel:
They have not said that the baptism of desire is explicit.
-Lionel Andrades
1.
http://abplefebvreforums.proboards.com/thread/2609/fr-paul-kramer-on-feeneyism
Did Pope Pius XII make a mistake ?
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/did-pope-pius-xii-make-mistake.html#links
Did Pope Pius XII make a mistake ? : implicit desire, invincible ignorance have nothing to do with extra ecclesiam nulla salus
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/06/did-pope-pius-xii-make-mistake-implicit.html#links
Lionel Andrades- Posts : 260
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Join date : 2013-01-08
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