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Request for immediate action

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Request for immediate action

Post  George Brenner on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:08 pm

Otremer6,


Request for immediate action by moderator:

R G said:

You're calling me a piece of work Mike? Funny I think the same of you. I WOULD HAPPILY NAIL YOU TO A TREE FOR YOUR HERESY AS YOUR ANCESTORS DONE TO MY BLESSED SAVIOUR


followed by:
Hey Columba, that 'piece of work' called the Jews your brethren, I'd personally take offense to that and happily bust his head open if I had the opportunity right now

If openly posting not once but twice harm up to and including murder is tolerated we have no forum, let alone a Catholic one. There is absolutely no excuse whether meant literally or figuratively.


JMJ,

George

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Jehanne on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:32 pm

I agree; in fact, I think that the forum needs (once again) to be closed down for a month or so to let everyone cool down and focus more of our energies on prayer and penance.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Jehanne on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:55 pm

I wish to amend my comments from above:

If this forum has become "an occasion of sin" (which, apparently, it has), it needs to be closed down, permanently.

We do not need to give the Roman Catholic Faith or Christ's Church a bad name by scandalizing others or ourselves.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  columba on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:28 pm

George Brenner wrote: Otremer6,


Request for immediate action by moderator:

R G said:

You're calling me a piece of work Mike? Funny I think the same of you. I WOULD HAPPILY NAIL YOU TO A TREE FOR YOUR HERESY AS YOUR ANCESTORS DONE TO MY BLESSED SAVIOUR


followed by:
Hey Columba, that 'piece of work' called the Jews your brethren, I'd personally take offense to that and happily bust his head open if I had the opportunity right now

If openly posting not once but twice harm up to and including murder is tolerated we have no forum, let alone a Catholic one. There is absolutely no excuse whether meant literally or figuratively.


JMJ,

George

George,
On a forum such as this there are different cultures at work. You obviously have never lived in Scotland for a time or you would know that this is how the Scots express themselves when agitated.

I was once in a restaurant in York, England, where a dispute was in progress between a Scot and the manager. The Manager wouldn't accept the Bank of Scotland notes as payment for the meal. The Scot listened to what the manager had to say, knocked him out and then walked out of the restaurant. Meanwhile I was sitting with my Bank of Ireland notes but fortunately a good samaritan diner swapped me for Bank of England notes before I had to pay.

RG,
If you were speaking figuratively you should retract your comments. If you really meant what you said and wish to leave them as they are then you won't be able to continue posting when the janitor returns. Moderation on this forum is for the most part nonexistent and that's why we all try to self-moderate. This allows the forum to stay up and running in its present form. We all have to take our own share of the responsibilty in that department. In Scotland those comments might be water off a ducks back but in a global (providing the world really is round) forum such as this they are taken at face value and as such are not allowed.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Jehanne on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:38 pm

Not only that, IP addresses, email addresses, etc., can be traced (unless one is using Tor, Tor Mail, etc.), which means that the cops could be looking for you, RG, assuming, of course, that you are in America.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  RememberGethsemane on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:56 pm

Closing my account guys and not retracting anything. Like I predicted way at the start when I found this forum, it will soon come to the point that MRyan will soon be the only one posting here with the likes of Simple Faith eagerly nodding in agreement. This is a hate-filled cesspool, so Im gonna wipe my feet, spit on this God begotten sham and get outa here. Thanks Jehanne and bless you !

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  RememberGethsemane on Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:00 pm

Anyone know how to close an account here?

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  George Brenner on Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:18 pm

RG,

Simply do not post any longer or visit this website even out of curiosity and all becomes history. What was said and written is history. What is done in the present and future belongs to each and every one of us before Church and God


JMJ,

George



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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  RememberGethsemane on Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:30 pm

George Brenner wrote: RG,

Simply do not post any longer or visit this website even out of curiosity and all becomes history. What was said and written is history. What is done in the present and future belongs to each and every one of us before Church and God


JMJ,

George



Who do you think you are sir? Do not even visit out of curiosity?? You make the rules do you? I want to delete my account first, then the rest is up to me!! OK?

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  RememberGethsemane on Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:31 pm

Jehanne wrote:Not only that, IP addresses, email addresses, etc., can be traced (unless one is using Tor, Tor Mail, etc.), which means that the cops could be looking for you, RG, assuming, of course, that you are in America.

I tried calling you twice Don on the number you provided me with, no answer.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  columba on Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:42 pm

RG,
Forums aren't the usual arena for crucifictions or punching heads in. There are many out there closer to home who hold the same views as Mike but do you go round kicking their heads in?

I remember Mike threatening Jehanne with violence if he (Jehanne) were "to say that to my face," or words to that effect, the difference being only in degree. Like I said, forums are for debates and the tools of debate are words. The other methods may have to be used at some point when it's no longer legal to be Catholic, but when that crusade begins we might all -out of necessity- be on the same side.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Jehanne on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:08 pm

RememberGethsemane wrote:
Jehanne wrote:Not only that, IP addresses, email addresses, etc., can be traced (unless one is using Tor, Tor Mail, etc.), which means that the cops could be looking for you, RG, assuming, of course, that you are in America.

I tried calling you twice Don on the number you provided me with, no answer.

You came across as "restricted" and then "unavailable." If you call again, I will answer this time. Usually, I don't answer calls without a Caller ID, as we are getting a lot of solicitations lately. Sorry about that.

Try calling again after 6 PM CST, as my wife has my cell phone.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  MRyan on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:32 pm

Ah, I've been out all day and didn't realize that this unfortunate matter has received some attention over here before I responded to the tough guy on the other thread.

Please note, columba, SF and George, that I take such bombasity for what its worth. I am neither threatened by it, nor take it seriously.

As for our spiritual director, Jehanne, please stop telling us the forum should be shut down, and for how long. The people who can't control their emotions need to take their meds and/or simply stop posting.

Columba, as for making excuses for really boorish behavior because its the only way the Celts know how to deal with anger, it reminds me of the disgusting display of our-of-control binge drinking by young and old alike I witnessed in Wales where intoxication is the only goal, and as quickly as possible. I know, its in the culture. Just more excuses.

And as far as "I remember Mike threatening Jehanne with violence if he (Jehanne) were 'to say that to my face,' or words to that effect, the difference being only in degree", you can take it any way you want, but more often than not a face-to-face encounter tends to lower the rhetoric just a notch. Its human nature, and it doesn't hurt that I'm 6'4". Very Happy

Plus, I know Jehanne well enough that I'm pretty sure the situation would be diffused well before we ever met. As I said, I don't generally take threats too seriously, especially on this forum. No big deal.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  columba on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:55 pm

MRyan wrote;
and it doesn't hurt that I'm 6'4".

I've pushed bigger outa the way to get into a fight.

Ps.

Are you one of them nephilim?

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  MRyan on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:58 pm

columba wrote:
MRyan wrote;
and it doesn't hurt that I'm 6'4".

I've pushed bigger outa the way to get into a fight.
That's what they all say. drunken

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  MRyan on Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:04 pm

columba wrote:

Ps.

Are you one of them nephilim?
No doubt; and it has as much credibility as the "Rome [the pope] will lose the faith and become the seat of the Anti-Christ" Jack Chick stupidity.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Lionel Andrades on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:51 am

Michael interprets the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to Cardinal Richard Cushing the Archbishop of Boston.So this is a break with the popes and Councils who did not say that the baptism of desire etc was explicit or that it was an exception to the dogma on salvation. The Archbishop and the Jesuits assumed it was.

Then he also jokes and says the same thing as me in reverse and wastes his times and mine.

Sometime back Dr.Brian Kopp writing on these forums openly rejected the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.

So how can Michael claim he is a Catholic after being informed over so many years, rejects the dogma extra ecclesiam nula salus, criticize those who do so on this forum, receives the Eucharist and contributes here as a Catholic ?.

When he says that he accepts the dogma on salvation with invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire being an exception and that this is what the Church teaches, he is referring to a widespread error in the Church.An error shared also on this forum by others and also held by the sedevancantists.

This is not the error of Fr.Leonard Feeney and the popes and Councils of the past.They affirmed the dogma without any exceptions.

The sedevacantists like the Dimond Brothers also make the error of assuming that salvation which is always implicit for us, is explicit in the case of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance.So in this case they are as 'innocent' as Michael and the others here making the same mistake.

Remember I was removed from the forum when I never denied the dogma according to Fr.Leonard Feeney but pointed out the error of another poster.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  columba on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:02 pm


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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  MRyan on Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:43 pm

Lionel jocolor Andrades wrote:
So how can Michael claim he is a Catholic after being informed over so many years, rejects the dogma extra ecclesiam nula salus, criticize those who do so on this forum, receives the Eucharist and contributes here as a Catholic ?.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  George Brenner on Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:54 pm


Lionel.

Please !!!!!! Informed by who(you?)



JMJ,

George

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  simple Faith on Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:05 pm


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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Jehanne on Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:11 pm

Lionel Andrades wrote:So how can Michael claim he is a Catholic after being informed over so many years, rejects the dogma extra ecclesiam nula salus, criticize those who do so on this forum, receives the Eucharist and contributes here as a Catholic ?.

Lionel,

I think that Mike accepts Cantate Domino from the Council of Florence as being an infallible, ex cathedra, declaration from the Church's Magisterium, and hence, per the First Vatican Council, as being irreformable. That was also the explicit position of the 1949 Holy Office Letter. However, does ending one's life in the "bosom and unity of the Catholic Church" always mean being a visible member of her? As I provide you in my other post, we have that clear example from the middle ages of young baptized children being kidnapped and taken back to Islamic lands to be raised as Muslims, in a false religion. Did the One and Triune God still love those kiddos? In being brainwashed into Islam, was such their fault? Would salutary repentance at "death's door" be possible for them? Point is that even at the time of the Council of Florence, things were not completely black/white. Still, it seems that religious indifferentism is "the rule and not the exception" in our day.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  George Brenner on Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:27 pm

Jehanne as you have as your signature reference:


“Not one of the elect and predestined perishes, regardless of his age at death. Never be it said that a man predestined to life would be permitted to end his life without the sacrament of the Mediator. Because, of these men, Our Lord says: ‘This is the will of the Father, that I should lose nothing of what he has given me.’” (St. Augustine, Against Julian 5, 4

Just a suggestion. Pose your questions from your last post to God and see what your soul and heart tell you. Listen, pause, take a deep breath and I think you just might smile. I continue to pray for your Dad.

JMJ,

your friend

George

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  MRyan on Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:30 pm

Jehanne wrote:
I think that Mike accepts Cantate Domino from the Council of Florence as being an infallible, ex cathedra, declaration from the Church's Magisterium, and hence, per the First Vatican Council, as being irreformable.
Ya think?

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  MRyan on Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:31 pm

Let the trial begin!


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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Jehanne on Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:41 pm

MRyan wrote:
Jehanne wrote:
I think that Mike accepts Cantate Domino from the Council of Florence as being an infallible, ex cathedra, declaration from the Church's Magisterium, and hence, per the First Vatican Council, as being irreformable.
Ya think?

As I said before, Mike, you're very knowledgeable, just not always charitable. In Eternity, the later will count much more than the former.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  MRyan on Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:28 pm

Jehanne wrote:
MRyan wrote:
Jehanne wrote:
I think that Mike accepts Cantate Domino from the Council of Florence as being an infallible, ex cathedra, declaration from the Church's Magisterium, and hence, per the First Vatican Council, as being irreformable.
Ya think?

As I said before, Mike, you're very knowledgeable, just not always charitable. In Eternity, the later will count much more than the former.
The problem, Jehanne, is you really shouldn't go there; seriously, your history on this forum should give you pause before telling someone else he is not "charitable".

I'm not sure you know what the word means.


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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Jehanne on Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:55 pm

Mike, the only individual whom I have had any "difficulties" with on this board has been you. Of course, I am not the only one.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  simple Faith on Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:01 pm


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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  MRyan on Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:50 pm

Jehanne wrote:Mike, the only individual whom I have had any "difficulties" with on this board has been you. Of course, I am not the only one.
Those "difficulties" stem from calling you out on your more outrageous accusations, flawed theology, constant misstatements and uncharitable tirades against the Roman Pontiff with your obsession about his eternal fate - (very hot). I guess sometimes you think you are the spiritual director of the popes as well.

Sorry that you think you should get a free ride.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Jehanne on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:31 pm

Perhaps "last things first," Mike; such diatribes on your part violate the Free Forums TOS, who, after all, are the ones "running the show" here.

And, yet, you refer to the Jews as being "our elder brothers," parroting the modernists within the Vatican, even though many Jews (especially, those in the State of Israel) are atheistic, and do not believe in any type of Supreme Being, afterlife, etc. And, you refer to the Protestants as being our "separated brethren" even though many of them regard the current Roman Pontiff as being the anti-Christ and destined for eternal Hell. And, you regard the Orthodox as being "in good faith" and will even post press releases from them about working toward "common goals" as if we, true Catholics, can have anything in common with individuals who deny at least some Catholic dogmas revealed by the One and Triune God. After all, would you eat a bowl of chicken soup which had "%1 arsenic," even though most of it were true chicken soup? I wouldn't.

And, yet, all the Protestants and Orthodox are "invincibly ignorant"; but as for "traditional Catholics," no way, no how. For us alone, you have no qualms about saying that we are "heretics," "schismatics," etc. Every other non-Catholic is, in fact, a "separated brethren," no matter what their theology espouses. Our theology is flawed; theirs has "elements of truth."

As for Pope John Paul II, I never placed him in Hell -- the words which I used were "may" and "if" (or the equivalent). You think that he is in Heaven or at least in Purgatory; I am not so sure. "Time will tell," which is true for all things.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  MRyan on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:51 pm

Don't tempt me, Jehanne, to bring forth your words against Pope JPII.

I'd prefer to leave it alone. You should do the same.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Jehanne on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:05 pm

Who cares? If I spoke carelessly, then I confess that publicly, here and now, as both a sin and a mistake. For the record, I don't know Pope John Paul II's eternal destiny, but also for the record, I don't think that he was a good and/or saintly Pope.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  MRyan on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:36 pm

Jehanne wrote:Perhaps "last things first," Mike; such diatribes on your part violate the Free Forums TOS, who, after all, are the ones "running the show" here.
"Diatribes"? I don't think so.

Jehanne wrote:
And, yet, you refer to the Jews as being "our elder brothers," parroting the modernists within the Vatican, even though many Jews (especially, those in the State of Israel) are atheistic, and do not believe in any type of Supreme Being, afterlife, etc.
Can you back it up? Show me where I said that. One could say that in an orthodox sense, but I want you to show me where I said it.

Some Jews are atheists, and suddenly you are an expert on Jews, and somehow this has something to do with me and "modernism". Sell it to RG.

Jehanne wrote:And, you refer to the Protestants as being our "separated brethren" even though many of them regard the current Roman Pontiff as being the anti-Christ and destined for eternal Hell.
No, you mean Pope Leo XIII and every subsequent Pope, and the Church, refers to them, as well as the Orthodox, as our "separated brethren". Your ignorant logical fallacy that says "some Jews are atheists" and "many of them regard the current Roman Pontiff as being the anti-Christ, therefore ...." is simply par for the course ... and ridiculous.

And what constitutes "many", when I do not know a single one. Certainly some of these Jack Chick hard-core types are out there (just like sede home-aloners), but they are not "many" in comparison to those Protestants who do not hold the Pope as "the anti-Christ".

There are probably just as many sedevacantists who hold this ignorant position, so at least they have something in common.

Jehanne wrote:And, you regard the Orthodox as being "in good faith" and will even post press releases from them about working toward "common goals" as if we, true Catholics, can have anything in common with individuals who deny at least some Catholic dogmas revealed by the One and Triune God.
As I said, Jehanne, take your little remnant of "true Catholics" to the CMRI and be done with it, for you know good and well that what I have said with respect to the Orthodox is what is said verbatim by Holy Mother Church.

Your beef is with the Church, not with me. This is much is clear, and becoming clearer everyday.

Jehanne wrote:After all, would you eat a bowl of chicken soup which had "%1 arsenic," even though most of it were true chicken soup? I wouldn't.
Your theological soup is least 2% arsenic, so what's your point?

Jehanne wrote:And, yet, all the Protestants and Orthodox are "invincibly ignorant"; but as for "traditional Catholics," no way, no how.
I've never said that, and never even implied it. But that's how you work, Jehanne, when you've got nothing in your quiver, you resort to demagoguery, inexcusable sloppy analysis and willful misrepresentation. You simply can't help yourself.

And you call this "charity"?

Jehanne wrote:
For us alone,
Now there's a bit of self-serving nothing. Who is "us"? You, RG and columba?

Jehanne wrote:
you have no qualms about saying that we are "heretics," "schismatics," etc.
Name names, please. Who is "we"?

Jehanne wrote:
Every other non-Catholic is, in fact, a "separated brethren," no matter what their theology espouses. Our theology is flawed; theirs has "elements of truth."
Again, who is "our" when you don't even agree with the St. Benedict Center or with columba on the non-efficacy of the baptisms of blood and desire? Your theology is often appalling (especially your "formal heresy" accusations), and all over the place, but, for someone who has vowed to remain in communion with the pope, you sure don't act like it.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  George Brenner on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:50 pm

Jehanne,

We all need to pray, be humble and learn.

Your posts as follows; no comments necessary:

Re: Sedevacantism OK as opinion,but not fact??
Jehanne on Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:43 pm

I am really shocked, tornpage. Infants who die without Baptism are forever excluded from Paradise:

http://unamsanctamecclesiamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2011/04/infants-who-die-without-sacramental.html

If the Church was wrong about this, then Catholicism is a lie.


and

Re: sister Lucia of Fatima accepted the V2 Popes
Jehanne on Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:29 pm

Sure, and if the Pope asked me to murder someone and I refused, I would guilty of schism; is that what you are saying? It is Jesus Christ who is the Head of His Church and not the Pope, who is his Vicar. I agree that Pope Benedict can correct things, perhaps on his deathbed, for he alone holds the Keys, at least on earth. In any case, I will not be following him to Hell. But, yes, I agree; this issue, like an multitude of others, will be settled at the Last Judgment. You and I may no longer care at that point, but the One and Triune God, a Perfect Being, will almost certainly care.


JMJ,

George

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Jehanne on Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:15 pm

George Brenner wrote:Jehanne,

We all need to pray, be humble and learn.

Your posts as follows; no comments necessary:

Re: Sedevacantism OK as opinion,but not fact??
Jehanne on Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:43 pm

I am really shocked, tornpage. Infants who die without Baptism are forever excluded from Paradise:

http://unamsanctamecclesiamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2011/04/infants-who-die-without-sacramental.html

If the Church was wrong about this, then Catholicism is a lie.

I agree, George; if all infants who end this life without sacramental Baptism go to Paradise, then, yes, Catholicism is a lie, for if the universal sensus fidelium of the Catholic Church was wrong about that for many centuries on end, then the Church is wrong about everything else or at least could be.


George Brenner wrote:and

Re: sister Lucia of Fatima accepted the V2 Popes
Jehanne on Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:29 pm

Sure, and if the Pope asked me to murder someone and I refused, I would guilty of schism; is that what you are saying? It is Jesus Christ who is the Head of His Church and not the Pope, who is his Vicar. I agree that Pope Benedict can correct things, perhaps on his deathbed, for he alone holds the Keys, at least on earth. In any case, I will not be following him to Hell. But, yes, I agree; this issue, like an multitude of others, will be settled at the Last Judgment. You and I may no longer care at that point, but the One and Triune God, a Perfect Being, will almost certainly care.


JMJ,

George

Ditto. If the Pope asked me to murder someone, I would not; likewise, I will not embrace heresy, either, even the "ambiguous type." As for being "in communion with the Pope," he is not in "communion with himself." I do not know what he believes; the recent Popes refuse to be interviewed at least on an "ad-hoc basis," so it is impossible to get a "straight answer" from them on the most basic theological questions. One need look no father than Pope Benedict's comments about condoms from a few years back. As for Popes going to eternal Hell, Dante placed a few there, so such is certainly not out of the question.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  otremer6 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:08 am

Jehanne wrote:I agree; in fact, I think that the forum needs (once again) to be closed down for a month or so to let everyone cool down and focus more of our energies on prayer and penance.

You can start your own Jehane forum where you can threaten people with bodily harm if you wish.

I'd recommend you follow your own advice and let this become history and stop reading the forum.

Thanks,

Forum Janitor

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  otremer6 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:12 am

Jehanne,

If you continue to make threats of bodily harm, I'll locate your isp and make a complaint to the police.

In the meantime, why don't you find another forum to post on?

Sincerely,

Otremer6

George Brenner wrote: Otremer6,


Request for immediate action by moderator:

R G said:

You're calling me a piece of work Mike? Funny I think the same of you. I WOULD HAPPILY NAIL YOU TO A TREE FOR YOUR HERESY AS YOUR ANCESTORS DONE TO MY BLESSED SAVIOUR


followed by:
Hey Columba, that 'piece of work' called the Jews your brethren, I'd personally take offense to that and happily bust his head open if I had the opportunity right now

If openly posting not once but twice harm up to and including murder is tolerated we have no forum, let alone a Catholic one. There is absolutely no excuse whether meant literally or figuratively.


JMJ,

George

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Lionel Andrades on Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:18 am

This is called the extra ecclesiam nulla salus forum and I know some of us here over the years have been banned on other forums because of our understanding of extra ecclesiam nulla salus.So what is the understanding of extra ecclesiam nulla salus on this forum?

We have extra ecclesiam nulla salus as understood by Fr.Leonard Feeney with not exceptions of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance. The dogma does not mention exceptions.This is the extra ecclesiam nulla salus of Rasha Lampa.

Then we have the extra ecclesiam nulla salus in which the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance are explicit and so exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.This is the extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to traditional and liberal forums and that of Michael here.

Which is the two is accepted when this forum is referred to as the extra ecclesiam nulla salus forum?

Secondly, we all come to this forum with a common understanding of reality.We are all on earth.
For me the apple falls donward.It does not rise.Night follows day.Summer follows winter.When someone is dead and buried he is no more visible. He is not seen walking.
I assume this is also the reality of the Administrator of this forum.
So if someone in the forum insists that the dead are visible then the Admin. must point it out that this is a different reality shared by the poster.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Lionel Andrades on Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:47 am

.Lionel Andrades wrote:
So how can Michael claim he is a Catholic after being informed over so many years, rejects the dogma extra ecclesiam nula salus, criticize those who do so on this forum, receives the Eucharist and contributes here as a Catholic ?.

Jehanne
I think that Mike accepts Cantate Domino from the Council of Florence as being an infallible, ex cathedra, declaration from the Church's Magisterium, and hence, per the First Vatican Council, as being irreformable. That was also the explicit position of the 1949 Holy Office Letter. However, does ending one's life in the "bosom and unity of the Catholic Church" always mean being a visible member of her? As I provide you in my other post, we have that clear example from the middle ages of young baptized children being kidnapped and taken back to Islamic lands to be raised as Muslims, in a false religion. Did the One and Triune God still love those kiddos? In being brainwashed into Islam, was such their fault? Would salutary repentance at "death's door" be possible for them? Point is that even at the time of the Council of Florence, things were not completely black/white. Still, it seems that religious indifferentism is "the rule and not the exception" in our day.


I think that Mike accepts Cantate Domino from the Council of Florence as being an infallible, ex cathedra, declaration from the Church's Magisterium, and hence, per the First Vatican Council, as being irreformable
.

Lionel:
How can Michael or others say that they accept Cantate Domino and then also state that there are exceptions of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance to Cantate Dominio ?

1.Cantate Domino does not mention any exceptions. It does not mention invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire as exceptions .
2. How can one say that every one needs to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation (Cantate Domin) and at the same time say like Michael that there are exceptions of the baptism of desire and invincible ignorance.
3.Where does the Letter of the Holy Office state that these cases are explicit for us or that they are exceptions?
4-Where does Vatican Council II or the Catechism of the Catholic Church state that these cases are explicit or that they are exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus?
5. How can those who are dead be visible to us now that they are saved in Heaven ?

So how can you say that Michael accepts Cantate Domino ?

This is a public denial of the dogma with irrational 'exceptions'.


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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Lionel Andrades on Mon Feb 04, 2013 5:55 am

Jehanne
However, does ending one's life in the "bosom and unity of the Catholic Church" always mean being a visible member of her?

Lionel:
Yes according to the dogma, Vatican Council II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Every one needs to be a visible member of the Church in 2013 for salvation.

Jehanne:
As I provide you in my other post, we have that clear example from the middle ages of young baptized children being kidnapped and taken back to Islamic lands to be raised as Muslims, in a false religion. Did the One and Triune God still love those kiddos? In being brainwashed into Islam, was such their fault? Would salutary repentance at "death's door" be possible for them? Point is that even at the time of the Council of Florence, things were not completely black/white. Still, it seems that religious indifferentism is "the rule and not the exception" in our day.

Lionel:
Jehanne What does this have to do with the teaching on every one needing to be a visible member of the Church for salvation? If they are saved they would be known to God only. If they are possibilities they are not necessarily exceptions.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Jehanne on Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:30 am

otremer6 wrote:Jehanne,

If you continue to make threats of bodily harm, I'll locate your isp and make a complaint to the police.

In the meantime, why don't you find another forum to post on?

Sincerely,

Otremer6

George Brenner wrote: Otremer6,


Request for immediate action by moderator:

R G said:

You're calling me a piece of work Mike? Funny I think the same of you. I WOULD HAPPILY NAIL YOU TO A TREE FOR YOUR HERESY AS YOUR ANCESTORS DONE TO MY BLESSED SAVIOUR


followed by:
Hey Columba, that 'piece of work' called the Jews your brethren, I'd personally take offense to that and happily bust his head open if I had the opportunity right now

If openly posting not once but twice harm up to and including murder is tolerated we have no forum, let alone a Catholic one. There is absolutely no excuse whether meant literally or figuratively.


JMJ,

George

I don't recall making any threats of bodily harm; if so, can you point those out to me? As far as tracing my IP, here it is:

IP Information: 173.20.252.105
ISP: Mediacom Communications Corp
Organization: Mediacom Communications Corp
Connection: Broadband
Services: None Detected
City: Cedar Rapids
Region: Iowa
Country: United States

Realize, of course, that individuals can use Tor, JonDonym, etc., to read and/or post anonymously to this or any other board, so telling people that you are going to "trace their IP and report them to the police" is hardly a deterrent. What this board and others need is active moderation to prevent the type of abuses which recently occurred.

P.S. I run my own Tor relay; here it is:

https://atlas.torproject.org/?#details/04B2B059F4CF7F29B09E7E0320855A3B0FEC1F71

and, my own anonymous Mixmaster email service:

http://anonusa.net/

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Jehanne on Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:45 am

Lionel Andrades wrote:Lionel:
Jehanne What does this have to do with the teaching on every one needing to be a visible member of the Church for salvation? If they are saved they would be known to God only. If they are possibilities they are not necessarily exceptions.

Lionel, Mike is going to "jump in here" and say, "Well, no one is visibly saved, except for 1) validly baptized infants who perish before the Age of Reason and 2) adults who end-up getting canonized by the Catholic Church." With respect to Category 2, however, nearly everyone who has ever been canonized by the Catholic Church has been a "card-carrying" member of her; the only exceptions being a handful of martyrs, and even in their case, they have ended their lives in full submission to the Roman Pontiff. So, if Rome truly believed that there were "visible exceptions" to the Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus dogma, why is there no ongoing attempts to canonize some of these "non-Catholic Christians"?

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Lionel Andrades on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:39 am

Lionel:
Jehanne What does this have to do with the teaching on every one needing to be a visible member of the Church for salvation? If they are saved they would be known to God only. If they are possibilities they are not necessarily exceptions

Jehanne
Lionel, Mike is going to "jump in here" and say, "Well, no one is visibly saved, except for 1) validly baptized infants who perish before the Age of Reason and

Lionel:
Jehanne, how are 'validly baptized infants who perish...' visibly saved?
This is a question I asked Michael too, what does he mean by 'visible salvation'. There is no such thing as 'visible' salvation.Physically we cannot see these cases.
In faith we accept it when the Church declares someone a martyr or a saint.

Jehanne:
2) adults who end-up getting canonized by the Catholic Church."

Lionel:
Also adults who are canonized are saved but they are not visible to us.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Lionel Andrades on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:42 am

Jehanne
from the middle ages of young baptized children being kidnapped and taken back to Islamic lands to be raised as Muslims, in a false religion. Did the One and Triune God still love those kiddos? In being brainwashed into Islam, was such their fault? Would salutary repentance at "death's door" be possible for them?

Lionel:
We can leave these cases to the mercy of God as in the case of the baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance.
None of these categories are known exceptions to Cantate Domino. They are possibilities for salvation but not exceptions to the dogma.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  Lionel Andrades on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:47 am

George
Please !!!!!! Informed by who(you?)


Lionel:
Cantate Domino says all need to convert into the Church if someone says all do not need to convert into the church it is heresy.

It is interpretuing the dogma as a break with the past.

Vatican Council II says all need faith and baptism for salvation.If you say all in 2013 do not need faith and baptism for salvation then it is interpreting Vatican Council II as a break with the past.
The CDF Prefect recently called this heresy.

There could also be a heretical interpretations of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  columba on Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:03 pm

otremer6 wrote:Jehanne,

If you continue to make threats of bodily harm, I'll locate your isp and make a complaint to the police.

In the meantime, why don't you find another forum to post on?

Sincerely,

Otremer6

George Brenner wrote: Otremer6,


Request for immediate action by moderator:

R G said:

You're calling me a piece of work Mike? Funny I think the same of you. I WOULD HAPPILY NAIL YOU TO A TREE FOR YOUR HERESY AS YOUR ANCESTORS DONE TO MY BLESSED SAVIOUR


followed by:
Hey Columba, that 'piece of work' called the Jews your brethren, I'd personally take offense to that and happily bust his head open if I had the opportunity right now

If openly posting not once but twice harm up to and including murder is tolerated we have no forum, let alone a Catholic one. There is absolutely no excuse whether meant literally or figuratively.


JMJ,

George

Otremer6,
I think this may be a case of mistaken identity. There were recent threats of bodily harm from "RememberGethsemane and he has since (I believe) voluntarily resigned from the forum.

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  George Brenner on Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:50 pm

'
Otremer6,

Columba last post to you is correct. My complaint was against RememberGethsemane as I documented in the orginal post and NOT Jehanne.

Thanks much,

George

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  otremer6 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:45 pm

Jehanne wrote:
otremer6 wrote:Jehanne,

If you continue to make threats of bodily harm, I'll locate your isp and make a complaint to the police.

In the meantime, why don't you find another forum to post on?

Sincerely,

Otremer6

George Brenner wrote: Otremer6,


Request for immediate action by moderator:

R G said:

You're calling me a piece of work Mike? Funny I think the same of you. I WOULD HAPPILY NAIL YOU TO A TREE FOR YOUR HERESY AS YOUR ANCESTORS DONE TO MY BLESSED SAVIOUR


followed by:
Hey Columba, that 'piece of work' called the Jews your brethren, I'd personally take offense to that and happily bust his head open if I had the opportunity right now

If openly posting not once but twice harm up to and including murder is tolerated we have no forum, let alone a Catholic one. There is absolutely no excuse whether meant literally or figuratively.


JMJ,

George

I don't recall making any threats of bodily harm; if so, can you point those out to me? As far as tracing my IP, here it is:

IP Information: 173.20.252.105
ISP: Mediacom Communications Corp
Organization: Mediacom Communications Corp
Connection: Broadband
Services: None Detected
City: Cedar Rapids
Region: Iowa
Country: United States

Realize, of course, that individuals can use Tor, JonDonym, etc., to read and/or post anonymously to this or any other board, so telling people that you are going to "trace their IP and report them to the police" is hardly a deterrent. What this board and others need is active moderation to prevent the type of abuses which recently occurred.

P.S. I run my own Tor relay; here it is:

https://atlas.torproject.org/?#details/04B2B059F4CF7F29B09E7E0320855A3B0FEC1F71

and, my own anonymous Mixmaster email service:

http://anonusa.net/

Good, why don't you stay there?

Thanks,

O6

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Re: Request for immediate action

Post  otremer6 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:47 pm

Good, because I'm not closing down the forum because someone's tender sensibilities are wounded.

I apologize to Jehanne anyway since I thought he was the individual making the threats.

Thanks for the clarification.

Sincerely,

O6

otremer6

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Re: Request for immediate action

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