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Ecumenism...Apostasy versus Conversion

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Ecumenism...Apostasy versus Conversion

Post  Roguejim on Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:55 pm

From tornpage quoting Fr. Harrison:

"... Pius XI flatly forbade any Catholic participation in interchurch or inter-religious meetings and activities motivated by the desire for restoring Christian unity. Vatican II, on the other hand, authorizes and positively encourages Catholic participation in such activities (within certain limits). The modern Church has thus made a prudential judgment that the risks and dangers of indifferentism and confusion about the faith occasioned by such activities — perils strongly emphasized by Pius XI — are outweighed by the great good to be hoped for as the long-term result of ecumenism: gradual, better mutual understanding, leading to that unity which Christ willed for all who profess to be his disciples."


This paragraph above raises some questions in my mind. Maybe I'll just ramble a bit... Would I be correct to conclude that Pope Pius XI didn't feel it was prudent to engage in inter-religious meetings if it meant risking the apostasy of even one Catholic, possible conversions aside? Is it prudent to put the flock at risk in the name of a greater good to be hoped for? Has anyone here ever seen where inter-religious activity has lead to conversions, i.e., conversions to the Church, not the other way around?

After years of watching The Journey Home, I have never heard any convert give a testimony that inter-religious activity with Catholics had any causal effect whatsoever on his conversion, if they even engaged in such activity at all. Their reasons for conversion are almost entirely a result of their own work, especially their own reading of the Church Fathers, and the apparently uncommon ability to think rationally.

So, here's Roguejim's plan for increasing the Church Militant, without putting it at risk. Under the Bishop's direction, parishes are to start hosting a "Church Fathers Night". These nights will be advertised in the local newspaper's Religion section with such titles as "The Early Church Fathers and the Bible", "The Early Church Fathers and the Bible Christian", "The Early Church Fathers and Protestantism", "The Early Church Fathers and the Evangelical Christian". Introduce the non-Catholics to the Church Fathers, and then ask the hard questions of Truth. You want dialogue? This will bring it. And if the testimony of numerous converts means anything, it might well work, at least as effectively as any inter-religious prayer lunch service.
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Re: Ecumenism...Apostasy versus Conversion

Post  Lourdes on Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:26 pm

Has anyone here ever seen where inter-religious activity has lead to conversions, i.e., conversions to the Church, not the other way around?

No, not anymore than I've seen a mixed marriage result in a better Catholic.

s it prudent to put the flock at risk in the name of a greater good to be hoped for?

No.

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Re: Ecumenism...Apostasy versus Conversion

Post  Guest on Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:57 pm

I like your idea, Jim. We have Bible Studies (some more studious than others), why not Church Father (/Tradition) studies?

There is a study put out by Ascension Press (who does the Jeff Cavins Bible Timeline thing), called "Epic" that's about Church History. We have it at my parish and I hope to check it out... I hope it is similar to what you are describing (or there might be a way to make it so...). Cool

We do need to take charge of (so-called) Ecumenism and put it to right. No more inter-religious "prayer" gatherings. Teach non-Catholics the true Faith! Bring them into the Church! I like the "Church Fathers Night" (/"study"... isn't that the buzz word these days?)... that's a good first step in the right direction.

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Re: Ecumenism...Apostasy versus Conversion

Post  Guest on Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:40 pm

As far as Eastern Orthodox go. I have met two Orthodox priests who converted to Catholicism and continue as priests in the Ukrainian Catholic Church. Both of them came to the Catholic Church through their own study.

I think most ecumenists would have told them that they don't NEED to convert.

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Re: Ecumenism...Apostasy versus Conversion

Post  DeSelby on Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:38 pm

Roguejim wrote:So, here's Roguejim's plan for increasing the Church Militant, without putting it at risk. Under the Bishop's direction, parishes are to start hosting a "Church Fathers Night". These nights will be advertised in the local newspaper's Religion section with such titles as "The Early Church Fathers and the Bible", "The Early Church Fathers and the Bible Christian", "The Early Church Fathers and Protestantism", "The Early Church Fathers and the Evangelical Christian". Introduce the non-Catholics to the Church Fathers, and then ask the hard questions of Truth. You want dialogue? This will bring it. And if the testimony of numerous converts means anything, it might well work, at least as effectively as any inter-religious prayer lunch service.

Asking hard questions and having clear answers: are the bishops up for it? Others? I think your idea is good. Have you considered sending this idea off to your local bishop?

(What kind of "dialogue" even happens at inter-religious prayer luncheons? I would like to see the transcripts, perhaps adapt them into modern Twilight Zone radio dramas.)
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Re: Ecumenism...Apostasy versus Conversion

Post  tornpage on Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:59 pm

Jim,

Introduce the non-Catholics to the Church Fathers, and then ask the hard questions of Truth.

Good idea. Now, all we need is the hierarchy to put it into practice, or at least allow it. Any ideas on that?
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Re: Ecumenism...Apostasy versus Conversion

Post  Roguejim on Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:16 pm

I hereby retract my idea of putting such an endeavor under the direction of the local Bishop. He would likely prefer the ecu-luncheon.

Ideally, the individual(s) presenting the topic would be Catholic laymen converts who have been through the Protestant seminary/Bible college system, preferably with degrees in Church history. These people are out there. A degree in philosophy is icing on the cake. No cradle Catholic can empathize with the non-Catholics like a Catholic convert can. I've seen them in action. The cradle Catholic brings automatic suspicion. The convert brings curiosity. I believe this strategy would be very effective in inducing non-Catholics to consider what they have very likely never considered before, i.e., the early Church faith.
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