Mary Spouse of the Holy Spirit prox. heresy!?

I was listening to EWTN radio and Mark Marivalle was on. I really liked his book on the Co-Redemtrix but in his comments during the program I was shocked to hear him say that Mary is Souse of the Holy Spirit. This seems aprox. to heresy. Since the Son is not generated by the Holy Spirit but by the Father. I have been studying the Trinity lately and have been in some debates with Greek Orthodox, so one needs to study the Trinity for that. Anyway the creed of Toledo, which the Orthodox HATE! Has always been considered a true and very sound theological treatment of the Trinity. And in there is explains that Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit but this doesn't refer to the 3rd person but to the Triune God in His power.
Also Mary has only one spouse St. Joseph and to refer to her having 2 spouses seems pretty impious to me. Is she to be considered a bigamist?

Interested in your feed back? Am I wrong and how?

cowboy wrote:I was listening to EWTN radio and Mark Marivalle was on. I really liked his book on the Co-Redemtrix but in his comments during the program I was shocked to hear him say that Mary is Souse of the Holy Spirit. This seems aprox. to heresy. Since the Son is not generated by the Holy Spirit but by the Father. I have been studying the Trinity lately and have been in some debates with Greek Orthodox, so one needs to study the Trinity for that. Anyway the creed of Toledo, which the Orthodox HATE! Has always been considered a true and very sound theological treatment of the Trinity. And in there is explains that Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit but this doesn't refer to the 3rd person but to the Triune God in His power.
Also Mary has only one spouse St. Joseph and to refer to her having 2 spouses seems pretty impious to me. Is she to be considered a bigamist?

Interested in your feed back? Am I wrong and how?

Hi, Cowboy- I hope you are well.

First off, I know that you have a pretty relaxed and easy-going personality and that comes through in how you write and I appreciate it. With a topic like this one though (speaking of Our Lady and her union with the Holy Trinity and then dealing with her perpetual virginity) I think it is important to tread carefully in our wording and how we are thinking of our Lady, being careful to always show her ( & Almighty God) due reverence.

The idea of Mary being espoused to the Holy Spirit is nothing new and is certainly NOT heretical.

According to St. Louis de Montfort in True Devotion:
36. When the Holy Ghost, her Spouse, finds Mary in a soul, He flies there and enters fully; He communicates Himself to that soul in abundance and to the extent that it makes room for His Spouse. One of the chief reasons why the Holy Ghost does not now work striking wonders in souls is that He fails to find in the a sufficiently close union with His faithful and inseparable Spouse. I say inseparable Spouse, for from the moment the Substantial Love of the Father and the Son espoused Mary to form Jesus Christ, the Head of the elect, and Jesus Christ in the elect, He has never repudiated her, for at all times she has been faithful and fruitful.

Garrigou-LaGrange, The Mother of the Savior:
Her charity- her love of God in Himself and of souls for His sake-surpassed even in it s beginning the charity of all the saints combined, for it was of the same degree as her fulness of grace. Mary was always most intimately united to the Father as His best-beloved daughter, to the Son as His Virgin Mother, and to the Holy Ghost in a mystic marriage more perfect than the world had ever known. She was, in a way beyond all power of understanding, a living temple of the Trinity, loved by God more than all creatures, and corresponding perfectly with that love by consecrating herself fully to Him in the instant of her conception, and by living thenceforth in the most complete conformity to His Will. (p131)

Also, I highly recommend reading the following article discussing Mary as Spouse of the Holy Spirit- particularly St.Maximilian Kolbe's explaining of it according to Sacred Tradition. http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=4270
(I actually haven't finished reading it, yet. I hope to get a moment today to finish it...)

There are really countless commentaries on this subject that show that this has been a longheld belief in the Church. I have only scratched the surface with what I have provided.

As far as how all of this works out with her marriage to St.Joseph -I am sure that others on here will be able to explain more eloquently and I have 4 boys that are about to go nuts here with mama sitting on the computer and ignoring them, so I will have to get back to you when I get a chance and when I have gathered my thoughts.

God bless!

Allie thanks for the response but I don't think I am being sloppy. I think some things are so pleasing pietistically that we don't seem to question what they are really saying. The article is good and thank you but it said this:
"With Mary's Immaculate Conception, God the Father and the Son willed that Mary be united to their common Spirit of Love in such a close and intimate manner that would allow the Holy Spirit to bring about the Incarnation of the Word within her womb, making Mary the Mother of God;"

I hve no problem with Mary being linked with the Holy Spirit thru her Imaculate Conception but to say:
"that would allow the Holy Spirit to bring about the Incarnation of the Word"

Just CAN'T be correct. The incarnation is from the Father not the Holy Spirit.

the Creed of Toledo says:
"#38 Yet we must not believe that the Holy Spirit is Father of the Son,
because of the fact that Mary conceived
by the overshadowing of the same Holy Spirit,
lest we seem to assert that there are two Fathers of the Son,
which is certainly impious to say."

"whatever God does outside the Trinity (in the world of creatures)
belongs to the common or united action of the three divine persons."
http://www.catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=33977

Sometimes the Bible refers to the Holy Spirit as the whole action of God and not just the 3rd person. Plus I noticed in the line in question says:
"The
Holy Spirit will come upon you, AND the power of the Most High
will overshadow you; therefore, the child to be born will be
called holy, the Son of God"

The power of the most high must be referring to God the Father or to God as Triune as well as the Holy Spirit being also the Triune God not the third Person, because the actions outside of the Trinity are done as one, but appropriation, their relation to each other with-in the life of God, are appropriated to the Person. To concieve the Son is the act of the Father even though He is making Him man it is still with-in the life of the Trinity because Jesus is True God and not outside the Trinitarian relationship.

Cowboy,

I read your responses and I am going to respond to them. However, I am getting ready to go to Mass right now and I need a little time to make a proper response (which may not be until tonight or tomorrow at the earliest).

God bless you,
Allie

cowboy,

Have you read any of St. Maximilian Kolbe's writings on Our Lady? (just wondering)

(side note: I actually took Dr. Miravalle's 'Mariology' class... I can dig up my notes in a day or so to give you his fuller explanation--sorry for the delay, but it's a busy couple of days for me)

I think Cowboy is on to something here. I would like to see someone address his actual arguments. It does not matter what St. Kolbe, St. Louis de Montfort, or any other saint said if a Creed of the Church says the contrary. A Creed....even of a local council has more authority than the quote of a saint. Additionally, St. Louis de Montfort and St. Kolbe wrote mainly pious works.

By the way when I was in Spain I heard the same thing that Cowboy is saying, it seems that there were some Spanish theologians, I heard Claretians, that held this position. I wish there was some way to do research into this.

Hey ML,
Are you still in contact with him? Maybe you could send my question to him (cleaning up the typos please )

Further he was promoting some apparition in Holland I think. There was some fishy stuff there too but I forgot what it was.

RAsha is right De Montfort was mainly a pious saint. The Jansenists had an aversion to Marian devotion, I think, and instead of becoming ecumenical, he went to the opposite extreme, stressing devotion to Mary. At times overly so, calling Mary "divine," of course it was to be taken as a pious sentiment not a theological statement.

MAximillian too was mainly pious but even though he was attempting to bring his devotion into theological terms, he was using De Montfort for his basis.

I did a quick search in the Church Fathers and "Spouse of the Holy Spirit" could not be found. Like baptism of desire I think it just snuck-in and no one really noticed because it sounds so nice and sweet, harmless but let an Orthodox priest get his hands on that and AHHHH!!!

cowboy wrote:Hey ML,
Are you still in contact with him? Maybe you could send my question to him (cleaning up the typos please )

Further he was promoting some apparition in Holland I think. There was some fishy stuff there too but I forgot what it was.

RAsha is right De Montfort was mainly a pious saint. The Jansenists had an aversion to Marian devotion, I think, and instead of becoming ecumenical, he went to the opposite extreme, stressing devotion to Mary. At times overly so, calling Mary "divine," of course it was to be taken as a pious sentiment not a theological statement.

MAximillian too was mainly pious but even though he was attempting to bring his devotion into theological terms, he was using De Montfort for his basis.

I did a quick search in the Church Fathers and "Spouse of the Holy Spirit" could not be found. Like baptism of desire I think it just snuck-in and no one really noticed because it sounds so nice and sweet, harmless but let an Orthodox priest get his hands on that and AHHHH!!!

Cowboy, I just accepted the title "Spouse of the Holy Spirit" without much consdideration but now you have me thinking a little more deeply.

My initial thoughts are, If Mary brought forth only the humanity of Christ I could see a problem with the title, but as we believe she brought forth the whole Christ both God and man (and actually holds the title of, Mother of God) then the union between Mary and the Holy Ghost must be a complete and unique union and "what God has joined together let no man seperate."

Regarding Joseph as the spouse of the Blessed Virgin, I don't see a contradiction in this either, for, as we rightly call our human father "Father" without denying that God is even more strictly our Father, so Mary being the wife of Joseph would not be in conflict with her being Spouse of the Holy Spirit in an even more real way.
And, as human espousal is only til death us do part, the espousal of Mary to the Holy Ghost is for all eternity.

These are my initial thoughts and I'm looking forward to hearing others and especially those with supporting references from Church traditional thinking.

[quote="columba"]

cowboy wrote:
My initial thoughts are, If Mary brought forth only the humanity of Christ I could see a problem with the title, but as we believe she brought forth the whole Christ both God and man (and actually holds the title of, Mother of God) then the union between Mary and the Holy Ghost must be a complete and unique union and "what God has joined together let no man seperate."

I don't understand your point?

Only the Son became flesh and the Son proceeds from the Father not the Holy Spirit.

The point about Father is well taken but again if Jesus is one person and is conceived by the 3rd person then the Holy Spirit would be the Father of the Son since he would be proceeding from the Holy Spirit and not the Father.

[quote="cowboy"]

columba wrote:

cowboy wrote:
My initial thoughts are, If Mary brought forth only the humanity of Christ I could see a problem with the title, but as we believe she brought forth the whole Christ both God and man (and actually holds the title of, Mother of God) then the union between Mary and the Holy Ghost must be a complete and unique union and "what God has joined together let no man seperate."

I don't understand your point?

Only the Son became flesh and the Son proceeds from the Father not the Holy Spirit.

The point about Father is well taken but again if Jesus is one person and is conceived by the 3rd person then the Holy Spirit would be the Father of the Son since he would be proceeding from the Holy Spirit and not the Father.

This is a very important subject for me because I always invoke Our Lady as spouse of the Holy Ghost when I pray the 3rd glorious mystery and have done this for years.

My initial thoughts I admit, are not very well formed and need much elaboration. However, in dealing with only one aspect of the mystery (in isolation), the whole picture doesn't come into focus.

The Blessed Virgins relationship to each Person of the Trinity is unique among all creatures. She is true mother of the Son, true daughter of the Father (as in not by adoption but by birthright so to speak) and as Jesus is called the New Adam, Mary is also called the New Eve. and, as Eve was formed from the rib of Adam, she was one flesh with Adam in the same way as the two become one in the sacrament of matrimony. Therefore as Mary is one flesh with her Son Jesus, she could also be considered the Bride of Christ. Indeed the Church is called the Spotless Bride of Christ but Mary is signified as the spotless representation of the Church while also being called Mother of the Church.
In the same way, Christ proceeded from Mary (from her womb) but Mary also proceeded from Christ as in being created by Him. The Holy Ghost being the active principle of the Godhead while proceeding from the Father and the Son, also remains God, co-equal with the Father and the Son and as Thomas (or Augustine) says, "When one person of the Trinity acts, they All act.

What I'm trying to get at here is the inter-changeable terms. The Blessed Virgin could well be called "The Spouse of the Holy Trinity" and if she be that, then the Holy Ghost (being a person of the Trinity) has also espoused the Blessed Virgin.

I have a gut belief that this term "Spouse of the Holy Spirit" is a legitimate one and you know how hard gut feelings are to shift without concrete evidence to the contrary
So far I have only a vague grasp on the matter, even concerning those concepts as stated above. How they'll stand up to proper theological scrutiny remains to be seen but I'll be following it all the way.

cowboy,

No, I am not in contact with Dr. Miravalle. I just took my classes and that was that. I just meant I still have my college notes to ruffle through. And while Dr. Miravalle does have many good things to say about Our Lady, I disagree with him about some Marian apparitions (especially Medjugorje); so I don't want you to think I was promoting him. (I still have to dig out my notes... perhaps this weekend, if you are still interested)

Secondly, the title "Spouse of the Holy Spirit" does not properly refer to the relationship of Mary and the Holy Spirit at the conception of Jesus, but to Mary's Immaculate Conception (at least, as I understand it, in the writings of St. Maximilian Kolbe). Also, the title is not a statement of the institution of matrimony, but (I suppose this falls into the "pious sentiment" idea, to a certain extent) to the intimate relationship that exists between Mary and the Holy Spirit (i.e., their relationship is so intimate that it is likened to a kind of spousal relation). Think of it like our relationship to Our Lord as members of the Church-- do we not call the Church "the Bride of Christ"? Thus we ourselves have a kind of spousal relationship to Our Lord even though there are many members who are married. One is a relation of institution (i.e., Sacrament of Matrimony), and the other is a relation by grace. (Therefore, no worries about plural marriages)

An excerpt from St. Maximilian Kolbe regarding Mary as spouse of the Holy Spirit (I apologize for the length)
"...Creatures, by following the natural law implanted in them by God, reach their perfection, become like Him, and go back to Him. Intelligent creatures love Him in a conscious manner; through this love they unite themselves more and more closely with Him, and so find their way back to Him. The creature most completely filled with this love, filled with God Himself, was the Immaculata, who never contracted the slightest stain of sin, who never departed in the least from God's will. United to the Holy Spirit as His spouse, she is one with God in an incomparably more perfect way than can be predicated of any other creature.
What sort of union is this? It is above all an interior union, a union of her essence with the "essence" of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit dwells in her, lives in her. This was true from the first instant of her existence. It was always true; it will always be true.
In what does this life of the Spirit in Mary consist? He Himself is uncreated Love in her; the Love of the Father and of the Son, the Love by which God loves Himself, the very love of the Most Holy Trinity. He is a fruitful Love, a "Conception". Among creatures made in God's image the union brought about by married love is the most intimate of all (cf. Mt. 19:6). In a much more precise, more interior, more essential manner, the Holy Spirit lives in the soul of the Immaculata, in the depths of her very being. He makes her fruitful, from the very first instant of her existence, all during her life, and for all eternity.
This eternal "Immaculate Conception" (which is the Holy Spirit) produces in an immaculate manner divine life itself in the womb (or depths) of Mary's soul, making her the Immaculate Conception, the human Immaculate Conception. And the virginal womb of Mary's body is kept sacred for Him; there He conceives in time--because everything that is material occurs in time--the human life of the Man-God.
And so the return to God (which is love), that is to say the equal and contrary reaction, follows a different path from that found in creation. The path of creation goes from the Father through the Son and by the Holy Spirit; this return trail goes from the Spirit through the Son back to the Father; in other words, by the Spirit the Son becomes incarnate in the womb of the Immaculata; and through this Son love returns to the Father.
And she (the Immaculata), grafted into the Love of the Blessed Trinity, becomes from the first moment of her existence and forever thereafter the "complement of the Blessed Trinity".
In the Holy Spirit's union with Mary we observe more than the love of two beings; in one there is all the love of the Blessed Trinity; in the other, all of creation's love. So it is that in this union heaven and earth are joined; all of heaven with all the earth, the totality of eternal love with the totality of created love. It is truly the summit of love.
At Lourdes, the Immaculata did not say of herself that she had been conceived immaculately, but, as St. Bernadette repeated it, "Que soy era immaculada councepciou": "I am the Immaculate Conception".
If among human beings the wife takes the name of her husband because she belongs to him, is one with him, becomes equal to him and is, with him, the source of new life, with how much greater reason should the name of the Holy Spirit, who is the divine Immaculate Conception, be used as the name of her in whom He lives as uncreated Love, the principle of life in the whole supernatural order of grace?" (Sketch, February 17, 1941) (Taken from Immaculate Conception and the Holy Spirit by Fr. H.M. Manteau-Bonamy, OP)
(please forgive any typos on my part!)

The power of the most high must be referring to God the Father or to God as Triune as well as the Holy Spirit being also the Triune God not the third Person, because the actions outside of the Trinity are done as one, but appropriation, their relation to each other with-in the life of God, are appropriated to the Person. To concieve the Son is the act of the Father even though He is making Him man it is still with-in the life of the Trinity because Jesus is True God and not outside the Trinitarian relationship.

I see your understanding here, however, I think you have to be careful since we confess 'qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto' in the Apostle's Creed.

Came across a few more things to ponder...

From Pope Paul VI's Marialis Cultus
" It seems to us useful to add to this mention of the Christological orientation of devotion to the Blessed Virgin a reminder of the fittingness of giving prominence in this devotion to one of the essential facts of the Faith: the Person and work of the Holy Spirit. Theological reflection and the liturgy have in fact noted how the sanctifying intervention of the Spirit in the Virgin of Nazareth was a culminating moment of the Spirit's action in the history of salvation. Thus, for example, some Fathers and writers of the Church attributed to the work of the Spirit the original holiness of Mary, who was as it were "fashioned by the Holy Spirit into a kind of new substance and new creature."... Examining more deeply still the mystery of the Incarnation, they saw in the mysterious relationship between the Spirit and Mary an aspect redolent of marriage, poetically portrayed by Prudentius: "The unwed Virgin espoused the Spirit," and they called her the "Temple of the Holy Spirit," an expression that emphasizes the sacred character of the Virgin, now the permanent dwelling of the Spirit of God. Delving deeply into the doctrine of the Paraclete, they saw that from Him as from a spring there flowed forth the fullness of grace (cf. Lk. 1:28) and the abundance of gifts that adorned her. Thus they attributed to the Spirit the faith, hope and charity that animated the Virgin's heart, the strength that sustained her acceptance of the will of God, and the vigor that upheld her in her suffering at the foot of the cross. In Mary's prophetic canticle (cf. Lk. 1:46-55) they saw a special working of the Spirit who had spoken through the mouths of the prophets. Considering, finally, the presence of the Mother of Jesus in the Upper Room, where the Spirit came down upon the infant Church (cf Acts 1:12-14; 2:1-4), they enriched with new developments the ancient theme of Mary and the Church. Above all they had recourse to the Virgin's intercession in order to obtain from the Spirit the capacity for engendering Christ in their own soul, as is attested to by Saint Ildephonsus in a prayer of supplication, amazing in its doctrine and prayerful power: "I beg you, holy Virgin, that I may have Jesus from the Holy Spirit, by whom you brought Jesus forth. May my soul receive Jesus through the Holy Spirit by whom your flesh conceived Jesus.... May I love Jesus in the Holy Spirit in whom you adore Jesus as Lord and gaze upon Him as your Son."

Pope Pius IX's Ineffabilis Deus
"This doctrine so filled the minds and souls of our ancestors in the faith that a singular and truly marvelous style of speech came into vogue among them. They have frequently addressed the Mother of God as immaculate, as immaculate in every respect; innocent, and verily most innocent; spotless, and entirely spotless; holy and removed from every stain of sin; all pure, all stainless, the very model of purity and innocence; more beautiful than beauty, more lovely than loveliness; more holy than holiness, singularly holy and most pure in soul and body; the one who surpassed all integrity and virginity; the only one who has become the dwelling place of all the graces of the most Holy Spirit."

Pope John Paul II's Redemptoris Mater
(Pope John Paul II differs from the explanations of St. Maximilian Kolbe here by linking the spousal relationship at the Annunciation and not at her Immaculate Conception...)

"The Holy Spirit had already come down upon her, and she became his faithful spouse at the Annunciation, welcoming the Word of the true God, offering "the full submission of intellect and will...and freely assenting to the truth revealed by him," indeed abandoning herself totally to God through "the obedience of faith," whereby she replied to the angel: "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word." The journey of faith made by Mary, whom we see praying in the Upper Room, is thus longer than that of the others gathered there: Mary "goes before them," "leads the way" for them."

"The first moment of submission to the one mediation "between God and men"-the mediation of Jesus Christ-is the Virgin of Nazareth's acceptance of motherhood. Mary consents to God's choice, in order to become through the power of the Holy Spirit the Mother of the Son of God. It can be said that a consent to motherhood is above all a result of her total selfgiving to God in virginity. Mary accepted her election as Mother of the Son of God, guided by spousal love, the love which totally "consecrates" a human being to God. By virtue of this love, Mary wished to be always and in all things "given to God," living in virginity. The words "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord" express the fact that from the outset she accepted and understood her own motherhood as a total gift of self, a gift of her person to the service of the saving plans of the Most High. And to the very end she lived her entire maternal sharing in the life of Jesus Christ, her Son, in a way that matched her vocation to virginity."

"Mary's motherhood, completely pervaded by her spousal attitude as the "handmaid of the Lord," constitutes the first and fundamental dimension of that mediation which the Church confesses and proclaims in her regard and continually "commends to the hearts of the faithful," since the Church has great trust in her. For it must be recognized that before anyone else it was God himself, the Eternal Father, who entrusted himself to the Virgin of Nazareth, giving her his own Son in the mystery of the Incarnation. Her election to the supreme office and dignity of Mother of the Son of God refers, on the ontological level, to the very reality of the union of the two natures in the person of the Word (hypostatic union). This basic fact of being the Mother of the Son of God is from the very beginning a complete openness to the person of Christ, to his whole work, to his whole mission. The words "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord" testify to Mary's openness of spirit: she perfectly unites in herself the love proper to virginity and the love characteristic of motherhood, which are joined and, as it were, fused together."

MarianLibrarian, thanks for the citations.

Before reading that you were going to supply some valued input, I was tempted to weigh-in with a back of the napkin observation that basically said that any reference to Mary as “Spouse of the Holy Spirit” cannot be taken literally, but must be taken as mystical imagery or in an analogous sense. Of course, the poetry of this imagery is most sublime, as your texts indicate.

Good reading.

MarianLibrarian wrote:cowboy,

No, I am not in contact with Dr. Miravalle. I just took my classes and that was that. I just meant I still have my college notes to ruffle through. And while Dr. Miravalle does have many good things to say about Our Lady, I disagree with him about some Marian apparitions (especially Medjugorje); so I don't want you to think I was promoting him. (I still have to dig out my notes... perhaps this weekend, if you are still interested)

Secondly, the title "Spouse of the Holy Spirit" does not properly refer to the relationship of Mary and the Holy Spirit at the conception of Jesus, but to Mary's Immaculate Conception (at least, as I understand it, in the writings of St. Maximilian Kolbe). Also, the title is not a statement of the institution of matrimony, but (I suppose this falls into the "pious sentiment" idea, to a certain extent) to the intimate relationship that exists between Mary and the Holy Spirit (i.e., their relationship is so intimate that it is likened to a kind of spousal relation). Think of it like our relationship to Our Lord as members of the Church-- do we not call the Church "the Bride of Christ"? Thus we ourselves have a kind of spousal relationship to Our Lord even though there are many members who are married. One is a relation of institution (i.e., Sacrament of Matrimony), and the other is a relation by grace. (Therefore, no worries about plural marriages)

An excerpt from St. Maximilian Kolbe regarding Mary as spouse of the Holy Spirit (I apologize for the length)
"...Creatures, by following the natural law implanted in them by God, reach their perfection, become like Him, and go back to Him. Intelligent creatures love Him in a conscious manner; through this love they unite themselves more and more closely with Him, and so find their way back to Him. The creature most completely filled with this love, filled with God Himself, was the Immaculata, who never contracted the slightest stain of sin, who never departed in the least from God's will. United to the Holy Spirit as His spouse, she is one with God in an incomparably more perfect way than can be predicated of any other creature.
What sort of union is this? It is above all an interior union, a union of her essence with the "essence" of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit dwells in her, lives in her. This was true from the first instant of her existence. It was always true; it will always be true.
In what does this life of the Spirit in Mary consist? He Himself is uncreated Love in her; the Love of the Father and of the Son, the Love by which God loves Himself, the very love of the Most Holy Trinity. He is a fruitful Love, a "Conception". Among creatures made in God's image the union brought about by married love is the most intimate of all (cf. Mt. 19:6). In a much more precise, more interior, more essential manner, the Holy Spirit lives in the soul of the Immaculata, in the depths of her very being. He makes her fruitful, from the very first instant of her existence, all during her life, and for all eternity.
This eternal "Immaculate Conception" (which is the Holy Spirit) produces in an immaculate manner divine life itself in the womb (or depths) of Mary's soul, making her the Immaculate Conception, the human Immaculate Conception. And the virginal womb of Mary's body is kept sacred for Him; there He conceives in time--because everything that is material occurs in time--the human life of the Man-God.
And so the return to God (which is love), that is to say the equal and contrary reaction, follows a different path from that found in creation. The path of creation goes from the Father through the Son and by the Holy Spirit; this return trail goes from the Spirit through the Son back to the Father; in other words, by the Spirit the Son becomes incarnate in the womb of the Immaculata; and through this Son love returns to the Father.
And she (the Immaculata), grafted into the Love of the Blessed Trinity, becomes from the first moment of her existence and forever thereafter the "complement of the Blessed Trinity".
In the Holy Spirit's union with Mary we observe more than the love of two beings; in one there is all the love of the Blessed Trinity; in the other, all of creation's love. So it is that in this union heaven and earth are joined; all of heaven with all the earth, the totality of eternal love with the totality of created love. It is truly the summit of love.
At Lourdes, the Immaculata did not say of herself that she had been conceived immaculately, but, as St. Bernadette repeated it, "Que soy era immaculada councepciou": "I am the Immaculate Conception".
If among human beings the wife takes the name of her husband because she belongs to him, is one with him, becomes equal to him and is, with him, the source of new life, with how much greater reason should the name of the Holy Spirit, who is the divine Immaculate Conception, be used as the name of her in whom He lives as uncreated Love, the principle of life in the whole supernatural order of grace?" (Sketch, February 17, 1941) (Taken from Immaculate Conception and the Holy Spirit by Fr. H.M. Manteau-Bonamy, OP)
(please forgive any typos on my part!)

The power of the most high must be referring to God the Father or to God as Triune as well as the Holy Spirit being also the Triune God not the third Person, because the actions outside of the Trinity are done as one, but appropriation, their relation to each other with-in the life of God, are appropriated to the Person. To concieve the Son is the act of the Father even though He is making Him man it is still with-in the life of the Trinity because Jesus is True God and not outside the Trinitarian relationship.

I see your understanding here, however, I think you have to be careful since we confess 'qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto' in the Apostle's Creed.

Thanks for the post. I am not really sure if he is being clear. She became spouse because she was sanctified by the Holy Spirit from her conception? That would make her highly favored daughter not spouse.


As for the Apostles Creed we need to understand it as the Church understands it. I mean "Jesus descended into Hell" This seems wrong too, but when it is explained as the Limbo of the Fathers then it is clear.

Bill Strom is to be blamed because I read the Creed of Toledo on his site! LOL
http://catholicvox.blogspot.com/2011/05/ceed-of-teledo.html

Columba, I am not holding to this; I am just exploring it. I like to ask questions and thus understand things better. But these Greeks are really good at the Trinity and I think most Catholics, and priest for that matter, are kinda clueless.


ML, I think the Creed of Toledo is trying to clarify this "conceived by the Holy Spirit."

"38 Yet we must not believe that the Holy Spirit is Father of the Son,

because of the fact that Mary conceived

by the overshadowing of the same Holy Spirit,

lest we seem to assert that there are two Fathers of the Son,

which is certainly impious to say."



"44 Also we must believe that the entire
Trinity accomplished the Incarnation of the Son of God, because the
works of the Trinity are inseparable. "

cowboy,

St. Maximilian Kolbe is speaking of the intimacy of the relationship between Mary and the Holy Spirit, not putting either under the institution of Holy Matrimony. Calling their love/union a spousal one is the closest analogy to describing the intimate union of their relationship... it is not meant for us to think that the Holy Spirit and Our Lady were married. It is one of those things where we have to tread lightly, it is true (in a sense (i.e., of the closeness of their relationship by grace), but not meant to be taken literally.

The writings of St. Maximilian Kolbe, Like St. Louis Marie de Montfort are pretty radical as regards Our Lady, but it really is necessary to get the broader context of St. Kolbe's understanding of the Most Holy Trinity, and especially of the Holy Spirit's being the "uncreated eternal conception", etc. I think if you really want to tackle this, you should read (at least) some of St. Maximilian's Kolbe's writings on the Immaculate Conception of the Our Lady and its relatedness to the 3rd Person of the Most Holy Trinity. The book I quoted from earlier is a good one, as well as The Kolbe Reader edited by Fr. Anselm Romb. Both books, I think, are published by Marytown Press.

As to the Creed... again, I think this is mainly a problem of seeing this spousal relationship existing because of the Annunciation... this is not the case for St. Kolbe (despite Pope John Paul II's encyclical... now there's a conundrum). For St. Kolbe, Mary has a spousal (i.e., a completely intimate interior) relationship with the Holy Spirit because of her Immaculate Conception (thus, from the first moment of her existence). This relationship does make her less a daughter (rather, it intensifies it), but (once again) we are not meant to take the idea of "spouse" literally, but instead as an expression of the deep intimacy which the spousal relationship conveys. Does this make sense? I am not sure I am explaining this well.

What did you think of the quotes from the Papal encyclicals?

To tell you the truth I just didn't want to even look at JPII's stuff. He is as clear as Vat II which means he just obscures stuff instead of clarifies. I will have to get to that.

But I think it is dangerous for people to throw around this title with no real support from scripture or the Fathers. It just seems to me to breed confusion. The reason that spousal relationship is so intimate because it is sexual, no? That's the way I see it, and I think a majority of Catholics take this spousal to HS literally and they also think it is because Mary conceived Jesus.

Can the title be found in any tradition? Other than De Montfort, Kolby, and JPII?

I will keep hunting through my Marian stuffs for you, cowboy. For the record, only the last few quotes were from Pope John Paul II.

As to you original concerns, I feel like those have been answered:

I was shocked to hear him say that Mary is Souse of the Holy Spirit. This seems aprox. to heresy. Since the Son is not generated by the Holy Spirit but by the Father.

Other than JPII, in the writings of St. Maximilian Kolbe, Mary is not spouse of the Spirit at the Annunciation, but from her Immaculate Conception (it is a spousal relationship of grace/intimacy, not institution). Thus, this does not effect Jesus' being eternally begotten of the Father.

Also Mary has only one spouse St. Joseph and to refer to her having 2 spouses seems pretty impious to me. Is she to be considered a bigamist?

Again, calling Mary "spouse" of the Holy Spirit is a relationship by grace, not by institution. Our Lady is not "married" to the Holy Spirit, she was only ever married to St. Joseph.


But now it seems like your concern is regarding the sexual connotation that "spouse" has, am I understanding you correctly? While it is true that part of the reason the spousal relationship is so intimate is through sexual intercourse, such physicality does not compromise the entirety of spousal intimacy. Conjugal love is an expression of spousal intimacy, but spousal intimacy is not composed of conjugal relations. There is much, much more to married life-- the spouses share a common life, they are spiritually tied to one another as helpmate, etc.

For the record, I don't think "spouse of the Holy Spirit" is a well known title to many Catholics at all, unless they've read St. Maximilian Kolbe.

We can't well argue with Pope Leo XIII, can we?

Pope Leo XIII Divinum Illud Munus
"And now Our mind and heart turn back to those hopes with which We began, and for the accomplishment of which We earnestly pray, and will continue to pray, to the Holy Ghost. Unite, then, Venerable Brethren, your prayers with Ours, and at your exhortation let all Christian peoples add their prayers also, invoking the powerful and ever-acceptable intercession of the Blessed Virgin. You know well the intimate and wonderful relations existing between her and the Holy Ghost, so that she is justly called His Spouse. The intercession of the Blessed Virgin was of great avail both in the mystery of the Incarnation and in the coming of the Holy Ghost upon the Apostles. May she continue to strengthen our prayers with her suffrages, that, in the midst of all the stress and trouble of the nations, those divine prodigies may be happily revived by the Holy Ghost, which were foretold in the words of David: "Send forth Thy Spirit and they shall be created, and Thou shalt renew the face of the earth" (Ps. ciii., 30)."

While I have been primarily focusing on the Popes and Councils... I have also run across the title used by St. Anselm, St. Alphonsus Liguori, St. Francis of Assisi, etc. and not only by Sts. Louis Marie de Montfort and Maximilian Kolbe.

Here is a bit from St. Alphonsus Liguori's The Glories of Mary
"Since, then, it was becoming that the Father should preserve Mary from sin as his daughter, and the Son as his Mother, it was also becoming that the Holy Ghost should preserve her as his spouse.
St. Augustine says that "Mary was that only one who merited to be called the Mother and Spouse of God" ("Haec est quae sola meruit Mater et Sponsa vocari"—Serm. 208, E. B. app.). For St. Anselm asserts that "the divine Spirit, the love itself of the Father and the Son, came porporally into Mary, and enriching her with graces above all creatures, reposed in her and made her his Spouse, the Queen of heaven and earth" ("Ipse Spiritus Dei, ipse Amor Patris et Filii, corporaliter venit in eam, singularique gratia prae omnibus requievit in ea, et Reginam coeli et terrae fecit eam"—De Excell. Virg. c. 4). He says that he came into her corporally, that is, as to the effect: for he came to form of her immaculate body the immaculate body of Jesus Christ, as the Archangel had already predicted to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee ("Spiritus Sanctus superveniet in te"—Luke, i. 35). And therefore it is, says St. Thomas, "that Mary is called the temple of the Lord, and the sacred resting-place of the Holy Ghost: for by the operation of the Holy Ghost she became the Mother of the Incarnate Word" ("Unde dicitur Templum Domini, Sacrarium Spiritus Sancti, quia concepit ex Spiritu Sancto"—Exp. In Sal. Ang.).
And now, had an excellent artist the power to make his bride such as he could represent her, what pains would he not take to render her as beautiful as possible! Who, then, can say that the Holy Ghost did otherwise with Mary, when he could make her who was to be his spouse as beautiful as it became him that she should be? Ah no! he acted as it became him to act; for this same Lord himself declares: Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee ("Tota pulchra es, Amica mea, et macula non est in te"—Cant. iv. 7). These words, say St. Ildephonsus and St. Thomas, are properly to be understood of Mary, as Cornelius à Lapide remarks; and St. Bernardine of Sienna (Pro Fest. V. M. s. 4, a. 2, c. 2), and St. Laurence Justinian (In Net. B. V.), assert that they are to be understood precisely as applying to her Immaculate Conception; whence Blessed Raymond Jordano addresses her, saying, "Thou art all fair, O most glorious Virgin, not in part, but wholly; and no stain of mortal, venial, or original sin is in thee" ("Tota pulchra es, Virgo gloriosissima! non in parte, sed in toto; et macula peccati, sive mortalis, sive venialis, sive originalis, non est in te"—Cont. de V. M. c. 2).
The Holy Ghost signified the same thing when he called this his spouse an enclosed garden and a sealed fountain: My sister, my spouse, is a garden enclosed, a fountain sealed up ("Hortus conclusus, soror mea, Sponsa, Hortus conclusus, Fons signatus"—Cant. iv. 12). "Mary," says St. Sophronius, "was this enclosed garden and sealed fountain, into which no guile could enter, against which no fraud of the enemy could prevail, and who always was holy in mind and body" (Haec est Hortus conclusus, Fons signatus, ad quam nulli potuerunt doli irrumpere; nec praevaluit fraus inimici, sed permansit sancta mente et corpore"—De Assumpt.). St. Bernard likewise says, addressing the Blessed Virgin, "Thou art an enclosed garden, into which the sinner's hand has never entered to pluck its flowers" ("Hortus conclusus tu es, ad quem deflorandum manus peccatorum nunquam introivit"—Depr. ad. gl. V.).
We know that this divine Spouse loved Mary more than all the other saints and angels put together, as Father Suarez (De Inc. p. 2, d. 18, s. 4), with St. Laurence Justinian, and others, assert. He loved her from the very beginning, and exalted her in sanctity above all others, as it is expressed by David in the Psalms: The foundations thereof are in the holy mountains; the Lord loveth the gates of Sion above all the tabernacles of Jacob . . . a man is born in her, and the Highest Himself hath founded her ("Fundamenta ejus in moontibus sanctis; diligit Dominus portus Sion super omnia tabernacula Jacob . . . Homo natus est in ea; et ipse fundavit eam Altissimus"—Ps. lxxxvi. 1). Words which all signify that Mary was holy from her conception. The same thing is signified by other passages addressed to her by the Holy Ghost. In Proverbs we read: Many daughters have gathered together riches: thou hast surpassed them all ("Multae filiae congregaverunt divitias: tu supergressa es universas"—Prov. xxxi. 29). If Mary has surpassed all others in the riches of grace, she must have had original justice, as Adam and the angels had it. In the Canticles we read, There are . . . young maidens without number. One is my dove, my perfect one (in the Hebrew it is my entire, my immaculate one) is but one, she is the only one of her mother (Adolescentularum non est numerus; una est columba mea, perfecta mea, una est matris suae"—Cant. vi. 7). All just souls are daughters of divine grace; but amongst these Mary was the dove without the gall of sin, the perfect one without spot in her origin, the one conceived in grace.
Hence it is that the angel, before she became the Mother of God, already found her full of grace, and thus saluted her, Hail, full of grace; on which words St. Sophronius writes, that "grace is given partially to other saints, but to the Blessed Virgin all was given" ("Bene 'Plena,' quia caeteris per partes praestatur, Mariae vero simul se tota infudit plenitude gratiae"—De Assumpt.). So much so, says St. Thomas, that "grace not only rendered the soul, but even the flesh of mary holy, so that this Blessed Virgin might be able to clothe the Eternal Word with it" ("Anima Beatae Virginis ita fuit plena, quod ex ea refudit gratia in carnem, ut de ipsa conciperet Deum"—Exp. In Sal. Ang.). Now all this leads us to the conclusion that Mary, from the moment of her conception, was enriched and filled with divine grace by the Holy Ghost, as Peter of Celles remarks, "the plenitude of grace was in her; for from the very moment of her conception the whole grace of the divinity overflowed upon her, by the outpouring of the Holy Ghost" ("Simul in ea collecta est gratiae plenitude, quia ab exordio suae conceptionis, aspersione Spiritus Sancti, tota Deitatis gratia est superfusa"—De Pan. c. 12). Hence St. Peter Damian says, "that the Holy Spirit was about to bear her off entirely to himself, who was chosen and preëlected by God" ("A Deo electam et praeelectam, totam eam rapturus erat sibi Spiritus Sanctus"—De Annunt.). The saint says "to bear her off," to denote the holy velocity of the divine Spirit in being beforehand in making this Spouse his own before Lucifer should take possession of her."

(I have also noticed that the Saints have all related Mary's being "spouse" to her Immaculate Conception, and not to the Annunciation (so JPII seems to be out of sync there))

cowboy wrote:
Can the title be found in any tradition? Other than De Montfort, Kolby, and JPII?

St. Francis of Assisi (although perhaps he is too pious for you all, lol).

Being that St.Maximillian was a Franciscan, this must have been a large part of the impetus in his meditating and writing about Mary and her relationship to the Holy Spirit (and therefore the Triune God).

And as ML has been writing so graciously, this is not a "natural" relationship/marriage/espousal of Mary to the Holy Spirit, but a supernatural and mystical union that the term "spouse" does not fully give justice to. But signifies the closest union of the creature (Mary) with the Uncreated God that is possible.

edit: just saw ML's post after I posted this...great information!

Thanks ML! Sorry if I over reacted. Some of your explanations have helped. I am more at peace with it seeing the Leo XIII quote. I just get nervous about just accepting things, without understanding. I would still like to understand it better but it was beneficial because I learned more about marriage.

No worries, cowboy. It is a great good to study the Faith! And it was fun for me to hunt through all my Marian books, etc. ... So I say, bring it on!

If you have the time, I would say check out one of the books compiled of St. Maximilian Kolbe's writings (especially the book, The Immaculate Conception and the Holy Spirit). He is the Saint which most thoroughly breaks down the title, though St. Alphonsus Liguori does a good job in The Glories of Mary as well.