"Safe" Baltimore Catechism

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.

The holy synod especially condemns and censures, in the book, the assertion which is scandalous, erroneous in the faith and offensive to the ears of the pious faithful, namely: Christ sins daily and has sinned daily from his very beginning, even though he avers that he does not understand this as of Christ our saviour, head of the church, but as referring to his members, which together with Christ the head form the one Christ, as he asserts. Also, the propositions, and ones similar to them, which the synod declares are contained in the articles condemned at the sacred council of Constance, namely the following. Not all the justified faithful are members of Christ, but only the elect, who finally will reign with Christ for ever. The members of Christ, from whom the church is constituted, are taken according to the ineffable foreknowledge of God; and the church is constituted only from those who are called according to his purpose of election. To be a member of Christ, it is not enough to be united with him in the bond of charity, some other union is needed. Also the following...

RashaLampa wrote:This question is for the Feeneyites on the forum-

Which is the volume and edition of the Baltimore Catechism that does not teach salvation outside the Church nor baptism of desire and baptism of blood?

Q: Speaking of St. Pius X's catechism, which continues to have sympathizers, will the publication of the compendium mean that it is definitively exceeded?

Cardinal Ratzinger: The faith, as such, is always the same. Therefore, St. Pius X's catechism always retains its value. However, the way of transmitting the contents of the faith can change.

Consequently, one can ask if St. Pius X's catechism can in this respect be regarded as still valid today. I think that the compendium we are preparing can respond better to today's needs. But this does not exclude the fact that there can be persons or groups that feel more comfortable with St. Pius X's catechism.

It should not be forgotten that that Catechism stemmed from a text that was prepared by the Pope himself [Pius X] when he was bishop of Mantua. The text was the fruit of the personal catechetical experience of Giuseppe Sarto, whose characteristics were simplicity of exposition and depth of content. Also because of this, St. Pius X's catechism might have friends in the future. But this does not make our work superfluous.

Necessity of Baptism and Obligations of the Baptised

16 Q. Is Baptism necessary to salvation?
A. Baptism is absolutely necessary to salvation, for our Lord has expressly said: "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God."

17 Q. Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way?
A. The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire.

The Ninth Article of the Creed
The Church in General

24 Q. To be saved, is it enough to be any sort of member of the Catholic Church?
A. No, to be saved it is not enough to be any sort of member of the Catholic Church; it is necessary to be a living member.

25 Q. Who are the living members of the Church?
A. The living members of the Church are the just, and the just alone, that is, those who are actually in the grace of God.

26 Q. And who are the dead members?
A. The dead members of the Church are the faithful in mortal sin.

27 Q. Can one be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church?
A. No, no one can be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic Roman Church, just as no one could be saved from the flood outside the Ark of Noah, which was a figure of the Church.

28 Q. How, then, were the Patriarchs of old, the Prophets, and the other just men of the Old Testament, saved?
A. The just of the Old Testament were saved in virtue of the faith they had in Christ to come, by means of which they spiritually belonged to the Church.

29 Q. But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved?
A. If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God's will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation

MRyan wrote:

RashaLampa wrote:This question is for the Feeneyites on the forum-

Which is the volume and edition of the Baltimore Catechism that does not teach salvation outside the Church nor baptism of desire and baptism of blood?

OK, as a "reformed Feeneyite" who did not renew his Feeneyite card, I won't give the answer away.

But do you really mean to say there are editions of the Baltimore Catechism that teach "salvation outside the Church"?
That sound heretical to me.

Say, does the Catechism of Pope St. Pius X also teach "salvation outside the Church"?

If so, should it be condemned as heretical, or can we chalk it up to a fallible Pope who had a weak moment (you know, "modernist advisers", and all that); or, a Pope who simply did nor read his own Catechism, the Italian edition of which is still extant?

Ah, you mean the "Feeneyite" version of "salvation outside the Church", as in salvation outside of external corporate membership, since internal unity with Christ (the Head of the Mystical Body) through the bonds of faith and charity is either "impossible", or does not suffice for salvation; for, no one can be IN the Church without belonging to her corporate visible structure in re.

Got it.

RashaLampa wrote:

MRyan wrote:

RashaLampa wrote:This question is for the Feeneyites on the forum-

Which is the volume and edition of the Baltimore Catechism that does not teach salvation outside the Church nor baptism of desire and baptism of blood?

OK, as a "reformed Feeneyite" who did not renew his Feeneyite card, I won't give the answer away.

That's quite alright, I have other ways of finding out.

RashaLampa wrote:

But do you really mean to say there are editions of the Baltimore Catechism that teach "salvation outside the Church"?
That sound heretical to me.

4th edition, the expanded edition for catechists says that if someone dies in their religion believing it to be the true one, they're alright.

RashaLampa wrote:

Say, does the Catechism of Pope St. Pius X also teach "salvation outside the Church"?

If so, should it be condemned as heretical, or can we chalk it up to a fallible Pope who had a weak moment (you know, "modernist advisers", and all that); or, a Pope who simply did nor read his own Catechism, the Italian edition of which is still extant?

I'll leave that to a future Pope to condemn as heretical.

RashaLampa wrote:For now I can't call it such, just like you can't call us a heretics because the Church approves 3 Feeneyite communities in Still River, and now provides a priest for the Richmond community.

RashaLampa wrote:

Ah, you mean the "Feeneyite" version of "salvation outside the Church", as in salvation outside of external corporate membership, since internal unity with Christ (the Head of the Mystical Body) through the bonds of faith and charity is either "impossible", or does not suffice for salvation; for, no one can be IN the Church without belonging to her corporate visible structure in re.

Got it.

I have been reading your arguments for two years (or more) and I'm simply not convinced.

RashaLampa wrote:You say it is impossible for the non-infallible teachings of the Church to be in contradiction to the infallible teachings, but when pressed to show how these lesser teachings (like teachings from the Theological Commission or the Catechism) AREN'T in contradiction to Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, you simply say they aren't because they just can't be and then proceed to insult the other person.

I) Also, the souls of those who have incurred no stain of sin whatsoever after baptism, as well as souls who after incurring the stain of sin have been cleansed whether in their bodies or outside their bodies, as was stated above, are straightaway received into heaven and clearly behold the triune God as he is, yet one person more perfectly than another according to the difference of their merits.

II) Holy baptism holds the first place among all the sacraments, for it is the gate of the spiritual life; through it we become members of Christ and of the body of the church. Since death came into the world through one person, unless we are born again of water and the spirit, we cannot, as Truth says, enter the kingdom of heaven. The matter of this sacrament is true and natural water, either hot or cold. The form is: I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit. But we do not deny that true baptism is conferred by the following words: May this servant of Christ be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit; or, This person is baptized by my hands in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit. Since the holy Trinity is the principle cause from which baptism has its power and the minister is the instrumental cause who exteriorly bestows the sacrament, the sacrament is conferred if the action is performed by the minister with the invocation of the holy Trinity. The minister of this sacrament is a priest, who is empowered to baptize in virtue of his office. But in case of necessity not only a priest or a deacon, but even a lay man or a woman, even a pagan and a heretic, can baptize provided he or she uses the form of the church and intends to do what the church does. The effect of this sacrament is the remission of all original and actual guilt, also of all penalty that is owed for that guilt. Hence no satisfaction for past sins is to be imposed on the baptized, but those who die before they incur any guilt go straight to the kingdom of heaven and the vision of God.

III) The holy synod especially condemns and censures, in the book, the assertion which is scandalous, erroneous in the faith and offensive to the ears of the pious faithful, namely: Christ sins daily and has sinned daily from his very beginning, even though he avers that he does not understand this as of Christ our saviour, head of the church, but as referring to his members, which together with Christ the head form the one Christ, as he asserts. Also, the propositions, and ones similar to them, which the synod declares are contained in the articles condemned at the sacred council of Constance, namely the following. Not all the justified faithful are members of Christ, but only the elect, who finally will reign with Christ for ever. The members of Christ, from whom the church is constituted, are taken according to the ineffable foreknowledge of God; and the church is constituted only from those who are called according to his purpose of election. To be a member of Christ, it is not enough to be united with him in the bond of charity, some other union is needed.

IV) When these affairs of an universal character have been settled, let him deal with those nearer at hand. Let him begin by reforming and ordering in an exemplary way his house, his household and the Roman curia, where and in so far as this is necessary, so that from the visible reform of the church which is the head of all others, lesser churches may draw purity of morals and no occasion may be given for calumny and malicious talk.

MRyan wrote:
Columba, may your troubled waters be stilled, and may you soon find communion with Christ's true Vicar and Holy Mother Church. You will not be forgotten.

simple Faith wrote:Mike, very sorry to hear that you might be leaving us, I really hope you reconsider your decision and hang on in. Although I am generally out of my depth on many of the topics discussed here, and therefore seldom contribute, I do gain a great deal from your contributions and firm rebuttals of false interpretation of Catholic doctrine.
Until coming to this forum I had little knowledge on the matters of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, baptism of blood and baptism of desire, but I am grateful that when I did take an interest that your voice was always there to refute the dangerous sede beliefs
that could deceive and lead one astray. I agree that you have invested an exhaustive amount of your energy and time attempting to convince a few members of the dangerous path they have taken yet to no obvious end, as some remain unconvinced. No-one can ever accuse of not trying your best and I am certain that your efforts will not go unrewarded.
Hopefully you will return to the forum shortly as I am certain there are many more topics that will require the 'no nonsense Mryan approach'.

God bless

Simple Faith wrote:
What title would you give to a 'Catholic' who denies the legitimacy of the Pope? Personally I think the term 'sedes' is quite mild, I could come up with a few other less charitable terms yet probably more accurate.

Columba said:

You SF -belonging to the latter group- look every bit as stupid and disloyal to the faith from the sede perspective as they (the sedes) look from your perspective. In fact I would go as far as saying that from ALL the other camps, your camp would be viewed as the most reproachable.

Simple Faith wrote:

Personally I think the term 'sedes' is quite mild, I could come up with a few other less charitable terms yet probably more accurate.

On Scandal by Saint Alphonsus Liguori

"The wolf catcheth and scattereth the sheep." - (John 10:12)

The Wolves that Catch and Scatter the Sheep of Jesus Christ, are the Authors-of Scandal, who, not Content-with their own Destruction, Labor-to Destroy others. But the Lord says: "Woe to that Man by whom the Scandal cometh" - Matthew 18:7. Woe to him who gives Scandal, and causes others to Lose the Grace of God. Origen says, that "a Person who Impels another to Sin, Sins more Grievously than the other". If, Brethren, there be any among you who has given Scandal, I will Endeavor this Day to Convince him of the Evil he has done, that he may Bewail it, and Guard against it for the Future. I will show, in the First (1st) Point, the Great Displeasure which the Sin of Scandal gives-to God; and, in the Second (2nd), the Great Punishment which God Threatens to Inflict on the Authors-of Scandal.

First Point: On the Great Displeasure which the Sin of Scandal gives to God.
It is, in the First (1st) Place, Necessary to Explain what is Meant-by Scandal. Behold how Saint Thomas defines it: "Scandal is a Word or Act which gives Occasion to the Spiritual Ruin of one's Neighbor". Scandal, then, is a Word or Act, by which you are to your Neighbor, the Cause or Occasion-of Losing his Soul. It may be Direct or Indirect. It is Direct, when you Directly Tempt and Induce another, to Commit Sin. It is Indirect, when, although you Foresee that Sinful Words or Actions will be the Cause-of Sin to another, you do not Abstain-from them. But, Scandal, whether it be Direct or Indirect, if it be in a Matter-of Great Moment, is always a Mortal Sin.

Let us now see the Great Displeasure which the Destruction of a Neighbor's Soul gives to God. To understand it, we must consider how Dear, every Soul is to God. He has Created the Souls of all Men to His Own Image. “Let us make Man to our Image and Likeness" - Genesis 1:26. Other Creatures, God has made by a Fiat - by an Act-of His Will; but the Soul of Man, He has Created-by His Own Breath. "And the Lord Breathed into his face the Breath of Life" - Genesis 2:7. The Soul of your Neighbor, God has Loved for Eternity (∞). "I have Loved thee with an Everlasting Love" - Jeremiah 31:3. He has, moreover, Created every Soul to be a Queen in Paradise, and to be a Partner-in His Glory. "That by these you may be made Partakers of the Divine Nature" - 2Peter 1:4. In Heaven, He will make the Souls of the Saints Partakers-of His Own Joy. "Enter thou into the Joy of thy Lord" - Matthew 25:21. To them, He shall give Himself as their Reward. "I am thy Reward, exceeding Great" - Genesis 15:1.

But Nothing can show the Value which God sets-on the Souls of Men, more-Clearly than what the Incarnate Word has done for their Redemption from Sin and Hell. "When", says Saint Eucharius, "you do not Believe your Creator, ask your Redeemer how Precious you are". Speaking-of the Care which we ought to have of our Brethren, Saint Ambrose says: "The Great Value of the Salvation of a Brother, is known from the Death of Christ". We Judge-of the Value-of everything by the Price Paid-for it, by an Intelligent Purchaser. Now, Jesus Christ has, according to the Apostle, Purchased the Souls of Men with His Own Blood. "You are Bought with a Great Price" - 1Corinthians 6:20. We can, then, say, that the Soul is of as much Value-as the Blood of a God. Such, indeed, is the Language of Saint Hilary. "Tam copioso munere redemptio agitur, ut homo Deum valere videatur". Hence, the Savior tells us, that whatsoever Good or Evil we do to the Least-of His Brethren, we do to Himself. "So long as you did it to One of these, My least Brethren, you did it to Me" - Matthew 25:40.

From all this we may Infer, how Great is the Displeasure given-to God by Scandalizing a Brother, and Destroying his Soul. It is enough to say, that they who give Scandal, Rob God of a Child, and Murder a Soul, for whose Salvation, He has spent His Blood and His Life. Hence, Saint Leo calls the Authors of Scandal, Murderers. "Quisquis scandalizat, mortem infert animw proximi". They are the Most Impious of Murderers; because they Kill not the Body, but the Soul of a Brother, and Rob Jesus Christ of all His Tears, of His Sorrows, and of all that He has Done and Suffered, to Gain that Soul. Hence the Apostle says: "Now, when you Sin thus against the Brethren, and Wound their Weak Conscience, you Sin against Christ" - 1Corinthians 8:12. They who Scandalize a Brother, Sin against Christ; because, as Saint Ambrose says, they Deprive Him of a Soul, for which He has Spent so Many Years, and Submitted-to so-Many Toils and Labors. It is related, that B. Albertus Magnus spent Thirty (30) Years in Making a Head, which resembled the Human Head, and 'Uttered' Words; and that Saint Thomas, Fearing that it was done by the Agency-of the Devil, took the Head and Broke it. B. Albertus Complained of the Act-of Saint Thomas, saying: "You have Broken on me, the Work of Thirty Years". I do not Assert that this is True; but it is certain that, when Jesus Christ sees a Soul Destroyed by Scandal, He can Reprove the Author of it, and say to him: Wicked Wretch, what have you done? You have Deprived Me of this Soul, for which I have Labored Thirty-Three (33) Years We read in the Scriptures, that the Sons of Jacob, after having Sold their Brother Joseph to certain Merchants, told his Father that Wild Beasts had Devoured him. “Fera pessima devoravit eum” - Genesis 37:20. To Convince their Father of the Truth of what they said, they Dipped the Coat-of Joseph in the Blood-of a Goat, and presented it to him, saying: "See whether this be thy Son's Coat or not" - Genesis 37:32. In reply, the Afflicted Father said with Tears: "It is my Son's Coat: an Evil Wild Beast hath Eaten him" - Genesis 37:33. Thus, we may imagine that, when a Soul is Brought-into Sin by Scandal, the Devils present-to God, the Garment-of that Soul, dipped-in the Blood of the Immaculate Lamb, Jesus Christ - that is, the Grace Lost by that Scandalized Soul, which Jesus Christ had Purchased-with His Blood - and that they say to the Lord: "See whether this be thy Son's Coat or not". If God were capable-of Shedding Tears, He would Weep more Bitterly than Jacob did, at the Sight-of that Lost Soul - His Murdered Child - and would say: "It is My Son's Coat. An Evil Wild Beast hath Eaten him". The Lord will go in Search-of this Wild Beast, saying: Where is the Beast? where is the Beast that has Devoured My Child? When He finds the Wild Beast, what shall He do with him?

"I will", says the Lord by His Prophet Hosea, "meet them as a Bear, that is Robbed of her Whelps"! - Hosea 13:8. When the Bear comes-to her Den, and finds not her Whelps, she goes about the Wood in Search-of the Person that took them away. When she Discovers the Person, oh! with what Fury does she Rush-upon him. It is thus, the Lord shall Rush-upon the Authors of Scandal, who have Robbed Him of His Children. Those who have given Scandal, will say: My Neighbor is already Damned; how can I Repair the Evil that has been done? The Lord shall Answer: Since you have been the Cause-of his Perdition, you must Pay Me for the Loss of his Soul. "I will Require his Blood, at thy hands" -Ezekiel 3:20. It is written in Deuteronomy, "Thou shalt not Pity him, but shall require Life for Life" - 19:21. You have Destroyed a Soul; you must Suffer the Loss of your Own. Let us Pass-to the Second (2nd) Point.

Second Point The Great Punishment which God Threatens to Inflict on those who give Scandal.

"Woe to that Man by whom the Scandal Cometh" - Matthew 18:7. If the Displeasure, Given-to God by Scandal be Great, the Chastisement which awaits the Authors of it, must be Frightful. Behold, how Jesus Christ Speaks-of this Chastisement: "But he that shall Scandalize one of these Little Ones that Believe in Me, it were Better for him that a Millstone should be Hanged about his Neck, and that he should be Drowned in the Depth of the Sea"! - Matthew 18:6. If a Malefactor Dies on the Scaffold, he Excites the Compassion of the Spectators, who, at least, Pray for him, if they cannot Deliver him from Death. But, were he Cast-into the Depths-of the Sea, there should be no one Present, to Pity his Fate. A certain Author says, that Jesus Christ Threatens the Person who Scandalizes a Brother with this Sort-of Punishment, to Signify that he is so Hateful to the Angels and Saints, that they do not Wish-to Recommend to God the Man who has Brought a Soul to Perdition. "He is declared Unworthy not only to be Assisted, but even to be Seen".

Saint John Chrysostom says, that Scandal is so Abominable in the Eyes of God, that though He Overlooks very Grievous Sins, He cannot Allow the Sin of Scandal to Pass, without Condign Punishment. "Tam Deo horribile est scandalum, ut peccata graviora dissimulet non autem. peccata ubi frater scandalizatur". God Himself says the Same, by the Prophet Ezekiel: "Every Man of the House of Israel, if he ... set up the Stumbling-Block of his Iniquity ... I will make him an Example and a Proverb, and will Cut him off, from the Midst of my People" - Ezekiel 14:7, 8.

And, in Reality, Scandal is One-of the Sins which we Find-in the Sacred Scriptures, Punished by God with the Greatest Rigor. Of Heli, because he did not Correct his Sons, who gave Scandal by Stealing the Flesh offered-in Sacrifice (for Parents give Scandal, not only by Giving Bad Example, but also by not Correcting their Children as they ought), the Lord said: "Behold I do a thing in Israel: and whosoever shall hear it, both his ears shall tingle" - 1Kings. And Speaking-of the Scandal given-by the Sons of Heli, the Inspired Writer says: "Wherefore, the Sin of the Young Men was Exceeding Great before the Lord" - ibid. Why was this Sin, exceeding Great? It was, says Saint Gregory, in explaining this Passage, Drawing others to Sin. "Quia ad peccandum. alios pertrahebant". Why was Jeroboam Chastised? Because he Scandalized the People: he "hath Sinned, and made Israel Sin" - 1Kings 14:16. In the Family of Ahab, all the Members of which were the Enemies of God, Jezebel was the most Severely Chastised. She was Thrown-down from a Window, and Devoured by Dogs, so that Nothing remained but her "Skull, and the Feet, and the Extremities of her Hands". And why was she so Severely Punished? Because she 'Set' Ahab, on to every Evil.

For the Sin of Scandal, Hell was Created. "In the Beginning, God Created Heaven and Earth" - Genesis 1:1. But, when did He Create Hell? It was when Lucifer began to Seduce the Angels into Rebellion against God. Lest he should Continue-to Pervert those who Remained Faithful to God, he was Banished from Heaven, immediately-after his Sin. Hence, Jesus Christ said to the Pharisees, who, by their Bad Example, Scandalized the People, that they were Children of the Devil, who was, from the Beginning, a Murderer of Souls. "You are of your Father, the Devil: he was a Murderer from the Beginning" - John 8:44. And when Saint Peter gave Scandal to Jesus Christ, by suggesting to Him not to Allow His Life to be Taken Away by the Jews, and thus Endeavoring-to prevent the Accomplishment-of Redemption, the Redeemer called him a Devil. "Go behind Me, Satan; thou art a Scandal to Me" - Matthew 16:23. And, in Reality, what other 'Office' do the Authors of Scandal perform, than that of a Minister of the Devil? If he were not Assisted-by such Impious Ministers, he certainly would not Succeed-in gaining so many Souls. A Scandalous Companion does more Injury than a Hundred (100) Devils.

On the Words of Hezekiah, "Behold, in Peace is my Bitterness most Bitter" - Isaiah 38:17, Saint Bernard, in the Name of the Church, says: "Peace from Pagans, Peace from Heretics, but no Peace from Children". At present, the Church is not Persecuted by Idolaters, or by Heretics, but She is Persecuted by Scandalous Christians, who are Her own Children. In Catbirds, we employ Decoys, that is, certain Birds that are Blinded, and tied in such a manner, that they cannot Fly-away. It is thus the Devil Acts. "When", says Saint Ephrem, "a Soul has been Taken, she becomes a Snare to Deceive others". After having made a Young Man, Fall into Sin, the Enemy First (1st) Blinds him, and Binds him as his own Slave, and then makes him his Decoy, to Deceive others, and to Draw them into the Net of Sin; he not only Impels, but even Forces him to Deceive others. "The Enemy" says Saint Leo, "has many whom he Compels to Deceive others". Miserable Wretches, the Authors of Scandal must Suffer in Hell the Punishment of all the Sins they have made others Commit. Cesarius relates that, after the Death of a certain Person, who had given Scandal, a Holy Man Witnessed his Judgment and Condemnation, and saw, that, at his Arrival-at the Gates of Hell, all the Souls whom he had Scandalized, came to meet him, and said to him: Come, Accursed Wretch, and Atone for all the Sins which you have made us Commit. They then Rushed-in upon him, and like so many Wild Beasts, began-to Tear him in Pieces. Saint Bernard says, that, in Speaking-of other Sinners, the Scriptures hold-out Hopes of Amendment and Pardon; but they Speak-of those who Give Scandal, as Persons Separated-from God, of whose Salvation there is very Little Hope. "Loquitur tanquam a Deo separati, unde hisce nulla spes vitw esse poterit".

Behold, then, the Miserable State of those who give Scandal by their Bad Example, who utter Immodest Words before their Companions, in the Presence-of Young Females, and even of Innocent Children, who, in Consequence-of Hearing these Words, commit a Thousand (1000) Sins. Consider how the Angel-Guardians of these Little Ones, Weep at Seeing them in the State of Sin, and how they Call-for Vengeance from God against the Sacrilegious Tongues that have Scandalized them. A Great Chastisement awaits all who Ridicule those who Practice Virtue. For, many, through Fear of the Contempt and Ridicule of others, Abandon Virtue, and give themselves up to a Wicked Life. What shall be the Punishment of those who bring Messages, to Induce others to Sin? or of those who Boast-of their own Wicked Actions? O God, Instead-of Weeping and Repenting for having Offended the Lord, they Rejoice and Glory-in their Iniquities. Some Advise others to commit Sin; others Induce them to it; and some, Worse than the Devils, Teach others how to Sin. What shall we say of Fathers and Mothers, who, though it is in their Power to Prevent the Sins of their Children, Allow them to Associate-with Bad Companions, or to Frequent certain Dangerous Houses, and Permit their Daughters to hold Conversations-with Young men? Oh! with what Scourges shall we see such Persons Chastised on the Day-of Judgment!

Perhaps some Father of a Family among you will say: Then, am I Lost because I have given Scandal? Is there no Hope of Salvation for me? No; I will not Say that you have not Hope; the Mercy of God is, Great. He has Promised Pardon to all who Repent. But, if you Wish-to Save your Soul, you must Repair the Scandal you have given. "Let him", says Eusebius Emissenus, "who has Destroyed himself by the Destruction of Many, Redeem himself by the Edification of Many ". You have Lost your Soul, and have Destroyed the Souls of Many, by your Scandals. You are now Bound-to Repair the Evil. As you have hitherto Drawn others to Sin, so you are Bound-to Draw them to Virtue:

And, from this Day forward, Avoid-as you would Death, every Act and Word which could Scandalize others. "Let their own Ruin", says Saint Cyprian, "Suffice for those who have Fallen". And Saint Thomas of Villanova says: "Let your own Sins be Sufficient for you". What Evil has Jesus Christ done to you, that it is not enough for you to have Offended Him yourselves, but you Wish-to make others Offend Him? This is an Excess-of Cruelty.

Be Careful, then, never again to give the Smallest Scandal. And if you Wish to Save your Soul, avoid as-much-as possible, those who give Scandal. These Incarnate Devils shall be Damned; but, if you do not Avoid them, you will bring yourself to Perdition. "Woe to the World because of Scandals, says the Lord" - Matthew 18:7. That is, many are Lost because they do not Fly-from Occasions of Scandal. But you may say: Such a Person is my Friend; I am under Obligations to him; I expect many Favors from him. But Jesus Christ says: "If thy Right Eye Scandalize thee, Pluck it out and Cast it from thee. It is better for thee, having One Eye, to enter into Life, than, having Two Eyes, to be Cast into Hell Fire" - Matthew 18:9. Although a Certain Person was your Right Eye, you must Withdraw Forever (∞) from her; it is better for you to Lose an Eye and Save your Soul, than to Preserve it, and be Cast-into Hell.

simple Faith wrote:Hi Duckbill, yes I do admire Mike, not because of who he is (I wouldn't know him if I passed him on the street) but because at a time when the Pope and Church are under constant attack from within and without, from rebel priests, new-age modernists, know-all 'traditionalists', politicians, media and sedevacantists, Mike has stood firmly by the Christ appointed Pope. At a time when it has become fashionable and trendy for so-called 'true' Catholics to attack the Pope and Magisterium by bringing forward a continuous litany of false charges against the Vicar of Christ, Mike has not failed in his loyal allegiance and defence of Pope Benedict. Not only has he defended the faith he has bent over backwards in his charity towards those hurling the abuse by clearly showing and explaining to them where they have gone off the path.
Duckbill, in Mike's many posts he does not ask anyone to support 'his views' he simply quotes the Churches view and advises people to support these, now what could be so radical about asking a Catholic to follow the Pope and the Magisterium?
What title would you give to a 'Catholic' who denies the legitimacy of the Pope? Personally I think the term 'sedes' is quite mild, I could come up with a few other less charitable terms yet probably more accurate.