Latest topics
SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
4 posters
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus Forum (No Salvation Outside the Church Forum) :: EENS Topics :: Debating Sedevacantism
Page 1 of 1
SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
DECEMBER 12, 2017
SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
If the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX ) announces that they accept Vatican Council II( Feeneyite/without the irrational premise) Rabbi Rosen will object.He will clarify that the SSPX must only accept Vatican Council II(Cushingite/with the premise) for "good relations with the Jews(Left)".He will be supported by Rabbi Segno and Rabbi Lara in Italy with their threat.They have the Anti-Semitic law as a weapon.
But with Vatican Council II(Feeneyite/premise free) the SSPX will meet the demand to accept Vatican Council II as set by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.But it would mean the SSPX accepts the old ecclesiology in harmony with Vatican Council II. Sp there could only be an ecumenism of return with the old ecclesiologly. Since the old ecclesiology does not teach that there is known salvation outside the Church.
The new ecclesiology teaches that there is salvation outside the Church and so this is an opening for the new ecumenism.
So accepting Vatican Council II would not be enough for the Vatican.It has to be with accepting that there is known salvation outside the Catholic Church and so every one does not need to be a member of the Church to avoid Hell.
Vatican Council II was never really the issue. The issue is ecclesiology.The issue is having to interpret all magisterial documents with the irrational premise to create a new ecclesiology.
So the FSSP and Institute of Christ the King, traditionalist religious communities,are allowed by Pope Francis to offer the Tridentine Rite Mass.They proclaim the new ecclesiology.It is Cushingite.It uses the invisible people are visible premise contradicting the Principle of Non Contradiction.
It results in a non traditional conclusion.These invisible-visible non Catholics it is concluded, are examples of salvation outside the Church.So invisible- for- us- baptism of desire is a visible exception to the dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus as it was known to Fr. Leonard Feeney and the old St. Benedict Center.This is the new fantasy theology which is approved by ecclesiastical Masonry.
The present St.Benedict Centres have also accepted Vatican Council II with the new ecclesiology and so are allowed to offer the Traditional Latin Mass.One community has canonical status ahead of the SSPX.
The SSPX knows that they simply have to make an announcement saying they accept only Vatican Council II( Feeneyite/without the invisible people are visible premise) and then they will meet the principal demand of Ecclesia Dei,which is Vatican Council II.
But then their property will be threatened by the Jewish Left.Also it could be demanded that the Vatican give the SSPX a leftist excommunication. The SSPX may not be able to legally call themself Catholic.
Any other Catholic religious community,Dominicans, Salesians, Redemptorists etc who follow the SSPX and accept Vatican Council II, interpreted rationally, will receive the same penalties from the Vatican.Since the priority of the two popes is not to be physically attacked by Mosad.
So now Catholic children in Detroit, for example, are taught Vatican Council II with the irrational premise and this is accepted by Michael Voris and Dr. Ralph Martin there.Since they have to protect their interests.
The threats had probably come to Michael Voris and CMTV a long time back.So he stopped supporting the traditionalists and started shouting from the roof tops that the SSPX is in schism. This is the same line as the leftist papers.
The SSPX still correctly chooses not to accept Vatican Council II(Cushingite/interpreted with an irrationality) as does Michael Voris,Louie Verrecchio, David Domet and the other Lefebvrists.
Hilary White has a blog post which says the churches in Spain are empty.They are empty since, among other reasons, there is no more fire in the Church, the fire of the Holy Spirit.No one is saying all Jews and Muslims are going to Hell according to Vatican Council II(premise free).Hilary White, Michael Matt and Christopher Ferrara do not want to upset the Jewish Left.The traditionalists White,Matt and Ferrara will not say that all Muslims are going to Hell according to the Catholic Church without the Jewish Left angle.
Muslims during the birthday celebrations of the prophet Mohammad(Milad ul Nabi) in Muslims countries sing religious songs(Naats) in praise of Mohammad.They put other Muslims in prison,who believe in Allah, but do not accept Mohammad as the last prophet of God.They have to begin and end their prayers to God with the name of Mohammad whom the Catholic Church considers lost for all eternity since he died without 'faith and baptism'(Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II)
So presently Rorate Caeili and the blog LMC Chairman regularly criticize Vatican Council II without differentiating between Vatican Council II Cushingite and Feeneyite.Since this could be costly.
How many times has this to be brought to the attention of Fr. John Zuhlsdorf, but he will not do anything since he knows from where the money comes and he would not want the Vatican to give him the same treatment Fr. Nicholas Gruner received.
Fr.Gruner and John Vennari could not understand the difference between the two interpretations of Vatican Council II or may be they too were prudently protecting the little they had.-Lionel Andrades
DECEMBER 11, 2017
Were the excommunications of Archbishop Lefebvre and Fr. Leonard Feeney leftist excommunications?: their fault was orthodoxy
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/12/were-excommunications-of-archbishop.html
SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
If the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX ) announces that they accept Vatican Council II( Feeneyite/without the irrational premise) Rabbi Rosen will object.He will clarify that the SSPX must only accept Vatican Council II(Cushingite/with the premise) for "good relations with the Jews(Left)".He will be supported by Rabbi Segno and Rabbi Lara in Italy with their threat.They have the Anti-Semitic law as a weapon.
But with Vatican Council II(Feeneyite/premise free) the SSPX will meet the demand to accept Vatican Council II as set by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.But it would mean the SSPX accepts the old ecclesiology in harmony with Vatican Council II. Sp there could only be an ecumenism of return with the old ecclesiologly. Since the old ecclesiology does not teach that there is known salvation outside the Church.
The new ecclesiology teaches that there is salvation outside the Church and so this is an opening for the new ecumenism.
So accepting Vatican Council II would not be enough for the Vatican.It has to be with accepting that there is known salvation outside the Catholic Church and so every one does not need to be a member of the Church to avoid Hell.
Vatican Council II was never really the issue. The issue is ecclesiology.The issue is having to interpret all magisterial documents with the irrational premise to create a new ecclesiology.
So the FSSP and Institute of Christ the King, traditionalist religious communities,are allowed by Pope Francis to offer the Tridentine Rite Mass.They proclaim the new ecclesiology.It is Cushingite.It uses the invisible people are visible premise contradicting the Principle of Non Contradiction.
It results in a non traditional conclusion.These invisible-visible non Catholics it is concluded, are examples of salvation outside the Church.So invisible- for- us- baptism of desire is a visible exception to the dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus as it was known to Fr. Leonard Feeney and the old St. Benedict Center.This is the new fantasy theology which is approved by ecclesiastical Masonry.
The present St.Benedict Centres have also accepted Vatican Council II with the new ecclesiology and so are allowed to offer the Traditional Latin Mass.One community has canonical status ahead of the SSPX.
The SSPX knows that they simply have to make an announcement saying they accept only Vatican Council II( Feeneyite/without the invisible people are visible premise) and then they will meet the principal demand of Ecclesia Dei,which is Vatican Council II.
But then their property will be threatened by the Jewish Left.Also it could be demanded that the Vatican give the SSPX a leftist excommunication. The SSPX may not be able to legally call themself Catholic.
Any other Catholic religious community,Dominicans, Salesians, Redemptorists etc who follow the SSPX and accept Vatican Council II, interpreted rationally, will receive the same penalties from the Vatican.Since the priority of the two popes is not to be physically attacked by Mosad.
So now Catholic children in Detroit, for example, are taught Vatican Council II with the irrational premise and this is accepted by Michael Voris and Dr. Ralph Martin there.Since they have to protect their interests.
The threats had probably come to Michael Voris and CMTV a long time back.So he stopped supporting the traditionalists and started shouting from the roof tops that the SSPX is in schism. This is the same line as the leftist papers.
The SSPX still correctly chooses not to accept Vatican Council II(Cushingite/interpreted with an irrationality) as does Michael Voris,Louie Verrecchio, David Domet and the other Lefebvrists.
Hilary White has a blog post which says the churches in Spain are empty.They are empty since, among other reasons, there is no more fire in the Church, the fire of the Holy Spirit.No one is saying all Jews and Muslims are going to Hell according to Vatican Council II(premise free).Hilary White, Michael Matt and Christopher Ferrara do not want to upset the Jewish Left.The traditionalists White,Matt and Ferrara will not say that all Muslims are going to Hell according to the Catholic Church without the Jewish Left angle.
Muslims during the birthday celebrations of the prophet Mohammad(Milad ul Nabi) in Muslims countries sing religious songs(Naats) in praise of Mohammad.They put other Muslims in prison,who believe in Allah, but do not accept Mohammad as the last prophet of God.They have to begin and end their prayers to God with the name of Mohammad whom the Catholic Church considers lost for all eternity since he died without 'faith and baptism'(Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II)
So presently Rorate Caeili and the blog LMC Chairman regularly criticize Vatican Council II without differentiating between Vatican Council II Cushingite and Feeneyite.Since this could be costly.
How many times has this to be brought to the attention of Fr. John Zuhlsdorf, but he will not do anything since he knows from where the money comes and he would not want the Vatican to give him the same treatment Fr. Nicholas Gruner received.
Fr.Gruner and John Vennari could not understand the difference between the two interpretations of Vatican Council II or may be they too were prudently protecting the little they had.-Lionel Andrades
DECEMBER 11, 2017
Were the excommunications of Archbishop Lefebvre and Fr. Leonard Feeney leftist excommunications?: their fault was orthodoxy
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2017/12/were-excommunications-of-archbishop.html
Lionel L. Andrades- Posts : 60
Reputation : 158
Join date : 2015-05-11
Liberals use an irrationality to reject the traditional exclusivist ecclesiology of th Catholic Church
Today morning at Mass in Italian the priest said that only those who choose to separate themselves from God will go to Hell and God has come to save all people, he wants all people in general to be saved.So he was optimistic like other liberals that most people would be saved.
Jesus died for all people but to receive this salvation all need to accept him as the Saviour in the Catholic Church(Dominus Iesus 20) and most people reject Jesus.
So all who know about Jesus and the necessity of the Church for salvation and still do not enter will not be saved(LG 14) this is true - but also those in general who do not know about Jesus and the Church and die with Original Sin on their soul will not be saved.
There are millions of people who do not know Jesus and the Catholic Church and they will also be lost.There are also millions of people in other religions who will also be lost.If anyone in invincible ignorance is to be saved it would be known only to God.In general the millions of people in the jungles of Africa and the deserts of Asia are all lost since they will die outside the Church.All need faith and baptism for salvation(AG 7).So even though Jesus died for all people, the majority of people will choose not to accept him as the Saviour.
This was how the Church Fathers and the missionaries in the 16th century understood salvation.With the error in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949(LOHO) liberal theologians at Vatican Council Ii changed this understanding of salvation.But the error is not fixed and permanent.They made the change with an irrationality.They assumed that being saved in invincible ignorance referred to known people (and not speculative cases) saved outside the Church, the theologians believed not everyone needs to enter the Church but only those who know about it, who were not in invincible ignorance.So with them accepting known and visible cases of being saved in invincible ignorance,they assumed there were exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus(Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus). Only with known people saved outside the Church could there be exceptions to the dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.Invisible and speculative cases could not be exceptions.There had to be concrete people for them to be examples of salvation outside the Church.
So for the liberal theologians like Karl Rahner and Joseph Ratzinger, no more did one have to be a Catholic for salvation.
Until today the liberals says God loves all people and all can be saved and 'the restriction', the 'limitation' is only believing in Christ - even without membership in the Catholic Church.So there still is a condition.
Before the LOHO error, when invisible baptism of desire was considered a visible exception to Feeneyite Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, the teaching was that it was necessary to believe and follow Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church the only Church he founded.
So the priest today morning was saying that for salvation one had to be a Christian and did not say that membership in the Catholic Church was necessary.
By assuming non Catholics saved outside the Church are known examples of salvation outside the Church there is a new theology which is Christological without an 'exclusivist ecclesiocentrism'; without exclusive salvation in the Catholic Church.
But what if we reason out that there are no known cases of being saved in 2018, in invincible ignorance, baptism of desire and baptism of blood, in the Catholic Church,baptism of blood, baptism of blood and I.I having nothing to do with Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus then what?
It means the millions of Christians (Protestants, Pentecostals, Orthodox Christians etc) are Hell-bound at the time of their death, since they are not Catholic.
Also the billions of non Chrisitans (Jews,Muslims, atheists etc) are Hell-bound at the time of death since they do not have faith and baptism as Catholics, which is necessary for salvation(AG 7,LG 14).
So the difference between the liberals and me is - seeing baptism of desire, baptism of blood and I.I as referring to known or unknown, visible or invisible people saved outside the Church.
When there are visible people saved outside the Church there can be no exclusivist ecclesiocentrism but when there are no known examples of salvation outside the Church we return to the past ecclesiology of the Church, which was exclusivist, every one needs to be a member of the Church with faith and baptism for salvation and there can be no known exceptions for us human beings.
Posibilities and speculative cases are not exceptions to Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.As a possibility a Christian can be saved outside the Catholic Church and God does not have to restrict Himself to the Sacraments if he does not want to and with Him being God.This is something theoretical for us and would only be real for God.It would only be a possibility known to God.So it is not a real, concrete exception in our reality, to the dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.It is not an exception to the exclusivist ecclesiology taught over the centuries.
So the priest today morning was assuming that there was known salvation outside the Church and so he rejected the traditional exclusivist ecclesiology of the Church.He then replaced it with a vague Christology, which would make a belief in Jesus as being all that was ncessary for salvation-
Lionel Andrades
Lionel L. Andrades- Posts : 60
Reputation : 158
Join date : 2015-05-11
Re: SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
Here we are, five years later! Let's see if anyone is still out there.
Bingo! I wonder how many times I've said this.
No, Lionel, they assumed no such thing. You did. I've asked you numerous times to provide proof for your "assumption" and you never quite got aroud to it.
Any chance of new life coming back to the forum? I hope so, so much to talk about (beyond this stale subject!).
Lionel L. Andrades wrote:If anyone in invincible ignorance is to be saved it would be known only to God.
Bingo! I wonder how many times I've said this.
Lionel L. Andrades wrote:This was how the Church Fathers and the missionaries in the 16th century understood salvation.With the error in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949(LOHO) liberal theologians at Vatican Council Ii changed this understanding of salvation.But the error is not fixed and permanent.They made the change with an irrationality.They assumed that being saved in invincible ignorance referred to known people (and not speculative cases) saved outside the Church, the theologians believed not everyone needs to enter the Church but only those who know about it, who were not in invincible ignorance.
No, Lionel, they assumed no such thing. You did. I've asked you numerous times to provide proof for your "assumption" and you never quite got aroud to it.
Any chance of new life coming back to the forum? I hope so, so much to talk about (beyond this stale subject!).
MRyan- Posts : 2314
Reputation : 2492
Join date : 2010-12-18
Re: SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
MRyan wrote:Here we are, five years later! Let's see if anyone is still out there.Lionel L. Andrades wrote:If anyone in invincible ignorance is to be saved it would be known only to God.
Bingo! I wonder how many times I've said this.Lionel L. Andrades wrote:This was how the Church Fathers and the missionaries in the 16th century understood salvation.With the error in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949(LOHO) liberal theologians at Vatican Council Ii changed this understanding of salvation.But the error is not fixed and permanent.They made the change with an irrationality.They assumed that being saved in invincible ignorance referred to known people (and not speculative cases) saved outside the Church, the theologians believed not everyone needs to enter the Church but only those who know about it, who were not in invincible ignorance.
No, Lionel, they assumed no such thing. You did. I've asked you numerous times to provide proof for your "assumption" and you never quite got aroud to it.
Any chance of new life coming back to the forum? I hope so, so much to talk about (beyond this stale subject!).
If Lionel does come back, I want him to use normal font. (Please.)
Jehanne- Posts : 933
Reputation : 1036
Join date : 2010-12-21
Age : 56
Location : Iowa
Re: SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
Mike? Jehanne?
Maybe I'm dreaming.
Maybe I'm dreaming.
tornpage- Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31
Re: SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
MRyan wrote:Here we are, five years later! Let's see if anyone is still out there.Lionel L. Andrades wrote:If anyone in invincible ignorance is to be saved it would be known only to God.
Bingo! I wonder how many times I've said this.Lionel L. Andrades wrote:This was how the Church Fathers and the missionaries in the 16th century understood salvation.With the error in the Letter of the Holy Office 1949(LOHO) liberal theologians at Vatican Council Ii changed this understanding of salvation.But the error is not fixed and permanent.They made the change with an irrationality.They assumed that being saved in invincible ignorance referred to known people (and not speculative cases) saved outside the Church, the theologians believed not everyone needs to enter the Church but only those who know about it, who were not in invincible ignorance.
No, Lionel, they assumed no such thing. You did. I've asked you numerous times to provide proof for your "assumption" and you never quite got aroud to it.
Any chance of new life coming back to the forum? I hope so, so much to talk about (beyond this stale subject!).
I'm all ears. Well, at the moment anyway.
Are we Sede yet? LOL
tornpage- Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31
Re: SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
tornpage wrote:Mike? Jehanne?
Maybe I'm dreaming.
Mark!!! Now I'm dreaming. Wow, three of us!
Not sede, but with Francis, well, you know! Let's just say I don't hold the sede position with the same derision as in ages past.
Hey, how about a discussion on the "Inaffallibly Safe" hypothesis which is garnering so much interest as of late? I'm game, are you?
Btw, I sent a good-willed pm to Paul (Pascendi) to see if he'll make an appearance.
MRyan- Posts : 2314
Reputation : 2492
Join date : 2010-12-18
Re: SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
tornpage wrote:Mike? Jehanne?
Maybe I'm dreaming.
Hey! It's been SO long!! So very good to hear from you again!!!
Jehanne- Posts : 933
Reputation : 1036
Join date : 2010-12-21
Age : 56
Location : Iowa
Re: SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
MRyan wrote:tornpage wrote:Mike? Jehanne?
Maybe I'm dreaming.
Mark!!! Now I'm dreaming. Wow, three of us!
Not sede, but with Francis, well, you know! Let's just say I don't hold the sede position with the same derision as in ages past.
Hey, how about a discussion on the "Inaffallibly Safe" hypothesis which is garnering so much interest as of late? I'm game, are you?
Btw, I sent a good-willed pm to Paul (Pascendi) to see if he'll make an appearance.
Mike,
Let the games begin agin!!!
tornpage- Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31
Re: SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
Jehanne wrote:tornpage wrote:Mike? Jehanne?
Maybe I'm dreaming.
Hey! It's been SO long!! So very good to hear from you again!!!
Jehanne,
I'm happy to hear from you again. Seems you've brought some life back to this old stomping ground. Well done.
tornpage- Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31
Jehanne likes this post
Re: SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
tornpage wrote:Jehanne wrote:tornpage wrote:Mike? Jehanne?
Maybe I'm dreaming.
Hey! It's been SO long!! So very good to hear from you again!!!
Jehanne,
I'm happy to hear from you again. Seems you've brought some life back to this old stomping ground. Well done.
Question is, "Where's Rasha?"
Jehanne- Posts : 933
Reputation : 1036
Join date : 2010-12-21
Age : 56
Location : Iowa
Similar topics
» No denial from Cardinal Ladaria, CDF : schism from the Left over Vatican Council II
» SSPX canonically has to accept the false premise in Vatican Council II
» Still no denial from Abp.Guido Pozzo : SSPX must accept Vatican Council II with a false doctrine and the new theology based on an irrational premise Image result for Photo of Archbishop Guido Pozzo
» Vatican (CDF/Ecclesia Dei) has no objection if the SSPX and all religious communities affirm Vatican Council II (without the premise)
» SSPX priest in Rome contradicts Reuters, World Jewish Congress
» SSPX canonically has to accept the false premise in Vatican Council II
» Still no denial from Abp.Guido Pozzo : SSPX must accept Vatican Council II with a false doctrine and the new theology based on an irrational premise Image result for Photo of Archbishop Guido Pozzo
» Vatican (CDF/Ecclesia Dei) has no objection if the SSPX and all religious communities affirm Vatican Council II (without the premise)
» SSPX priest in Rome contradicts Reuters, World Jewish Congress
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus Forum (No Salvation Outside the Church Forum) :: EENS Topics :: Debating Sedevacantism
Page 1 of 1
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:46 am by tornpage
» Defilement of the Temple
Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:44 am by tornpage
» Forum update
Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:24 am by tornpage
» Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments
Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:42 pm by MRyan
» The Mysterious 45 days of Daniel 12:11-12
Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:04 am by tornpage
» St. Bonaventure on the Necessity of Baptism
Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:06 pm by tornpage
» Isaiah 22:20-25
Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:44 am by tornpage
» Translation of Bellarmine's De Amissione Gratiae, Bk. VI
Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:04 am by tornpage
» Orestes Brownson Nails it on Baptism of Desire
Thu Jan 18, 2024 3:06 pm by MRyan
» Do Feeneyites still exist?
Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:02 am by Jehanne
» Sedevacantism and the Church's Indefectibility
Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:22 pm by tornpage
» Inallible safety?
Thu Jan 11, 2024 1:47 pm by MRyan
» Usury - Has the Church Erred?
Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:05 pm by tornpage
» Rethink "Feeneyism"?
Tue Jan 09, 2024 8:40 pm by MRyan
» SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
Fri Jan 05, 2024 8:57 am by Jehanne
» Anyone still around?
Mon Jan 01, 2024 11:04 pm by Jehanne
» Angelqueen.org???
Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:38 am by Paul
» Vatican (CDF/Ecclesia Dei) has no objection if the SSPX and all religious communities affirm Vatican Council II (without the premise)
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:29 am by Lionel L. Andrades
» Piazza Spagna - mission
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:06 am by Lionel L. Andrades
» Fund,Catholic organisation needed to help Catholic priests in Italy like Fr. Alessandro Minutella
Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:52 am by Lionel L. Andrades