Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus Forum (No Salvation Outside the Church Forum)
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Latest topics
» The Unity of the Body (the Church, Israel)
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyThu Apr 04, 2024 8:46 am by tornpage

» Defilement of the Temple
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyTue Feb 06, 2024 7:44 am by tornpage

» Forum update
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptySat Feb 03, 2024 8:24 am by tornpage

» Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyThu Feb 01, 2024 12:42 pm by MRyan

» The Mysterious 45 days of Daniel 12:11-12
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyFri Jan 26, 2024 11:04 am by tornpage

» St. Bonaventure on the Necessity of Baptism
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyTue Jan 23, 2024 7:06 pm by tornpage

» Isaiah 22:20-25
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyFri Jan 19, 2024 10:44 am by tornpage

» Translation of Bellarmine's De Amissione Gratiae, Bk. VI
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyFri Jan 19, 2024 10:04 am by tornpage

» Orestes Brownson Nails it on Baptism of Desire
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyThu Jan 18, 2024 3:06 pm by MRyan

» Do Feeneyites still exist?
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyWed Jan 17, 2024 8:02 am by Jehanne

» Sedevacantism and the Church's Indefectibility
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptySat Jan 13, 2024 5:22 pm by tornpage

» Inallible safety?
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyThu Jan 11, 2024 1:47 pm by MRyan

» Usury - Has the Church Erred?
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyTue Jan 09, 2024 11:05 pm by tornpage

» Rethink "Feeneyism"?
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyTue Jan 09, 2024 8:40 pm by MRyan

» SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyFri Jan 05, 2024 8:57 am by Jehanne

» Anyone still around?
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyMon Jan 01, 2024 11:04 pm by Jehanne

» Angelqueen.org???
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptyTue Oct 16, 2018 8:38 am by Paul

» Vatican (CDF/Ecclesia Dei) has no objection if the SSPX and all religious communities affirm Vatican Council II (without the premise)
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptySun Dec 10, 2017 8:29 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Piazza Spagna - mission
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptySun Dec 10, 2017 8:06 am by Lionel L. Andrades

» Fund,Catholic organisation needed to help Catholic priests in Italy like Fr. Alessandro Minutella
Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments EmptySun Dec 10, 2017 7:52 am by Lionel L. Andrades


Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

2 posters

Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

Post  tornpage Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:21 am

Bishop Williamson has issued his latest Eleison comments. https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/eleison-comments-vigano-sedevacantist-ii-(861)/msg922525/?topicseen#msg922525

In this, he talks about Archbishop Vigano's recent "criticism" - to say the least - of Francis and the whole post-V2 debacle in the Church. Bishop Williamson (BW) summarizes the points made by Vigano, among which are:


1- Over the last 10 years, the Catholic Church has been turned over to revolution and chaos.

3 – Church Authority, so paralysed, is explicable only by the “operation of error” foretold for world’s end.


So we say it's the prophesied "operation of error." Where does that phrase come from?


2 Th. 2:10  And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:


Very good. Now, just keep reading 2 Th. 2 and see how this is all resolved. No? No.

BW concludes:


Woe to Catholic Tradition, or to its “Resistance,” that would lose all respect for Catholic Authority, because that Authority is divine, and]it must and will come back, in full force, one day, just like the sun after an eclipse, and before world’s end.


We gotta have another pope, another council, another . . . What happened to following 2 Th. 2 to see what it says? Make sense?


2 Th. 2:8 And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him,


It would help to see all of this in context:


1 And we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him:  2 That you be not easily moved from your sense, nor be terrified, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by epistle, as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand.  3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,  4 Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God.  5 Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now you know what withholdeth, that he may be revealed in his time.  7 For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way.  8 And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him,  9 Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,  10 And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:  11 That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity.



Yes, BW, "Catholic Authority" will be restored, by the Authority Himself, and with His coming again - with the "brightness of His coming."

Do we need more Scriptural reference to what that is? I would hope not. But then again . . .

But, but, "the triumph of the Immaculate Heart." But Fatima?

Our Blessed Mother's end all and be all is Her Son. I don't know about you, but His return with "the brightness of His coming" - I would think Our Mother would consider that a triumph, no?

We know what this is, and how it ends.

Forget about another "pope," another "council." Maybe. Maybe not.

But Scripture seems clear to me. If this is indeed the "operation or error," then we know, WE WERE TOLD, how it all ends.

The question of the moment should be, what does "come out of her my people" (Apoc. 18:4) mean? This is the question of the moment for me, and for us all.

St. Augustine has a good meditation on that.

More later.

tornpage
tornpage

Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty St. Augustine - Reflections on Isa. lii. 11 ("Depart ye, go ye out from thence")

Post  tornpage Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:42 am

I've posted this elsewhere, so I have it at hand. Now is "later."

The forerunner of Apoc. 18:4 ("come out of her my people"), is Isa. 52:11 -


11 Depart, depart, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing: go out of the midst of her, be ye clean, you that carry the vessels of the Lord.


Here's the great doctor. St. Augustine:


St. Augustine, Sermon XXXVIII.

21. But whoso forsaketh unity, violateth charity; and whosoever violateth charity, how great gifts soever he have, he is nothing. “If he speak with the tongues of men and of angels; if he knew all mysteries, if he have all faith, so as to remove mountains, if he distribute all his goods to the poor, if he give his body to be burned, and have not charity; it is nothing; it profiteth him nothing.”( 1 Cor. xiii. 1–3 . ) He possesseth all things to no useful end, who hath not that one thing by which he may use all these things well. So then let us embrace charity, “studying to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.”( Eph. iv. 3 . ) Let not those seduce us who understand the Scriptures in a carnal manner, and who in making a bodily separation, are separated themselves by a spiritual sacrilege from the good corn of the Church which is spread over the whole world. For throughout the whole world hath the good seed been sown. That good Sower, the Son of Man, hath scattered the good seed not in Africa only, but everywhere. But the enemy hath sown tares upon it. Yet what saith the Householder? “Let both grow together until the harvest.”( Matt. xiii. 24 , etc. ) Grow where? In the field, of course. What is the field? Is it Africa? No! What is it then? Let us not interpret it ourselves, let the Lord speak; let us not suffer any one to make his guess at his own pleasure. For the disciples said to the Master, “Declare unto us the parable of the tares.” And the Lord declared it: “The good seed,” said He, “are the children of the Kingdom. But the tares are the children of the wicked one.” Who sowed them? “The enemy that sowed them,” said He,” is the devil.” What is the field? “The field,” said He, “is this world.” What is the harvest? “The harvest,” said He, “is the end of the world.” Who are the reapers? “The reapers,” said He, “are the Angels.” Is Africa the world? Is this present time the harvest? Is Donatus the reaper? Look then for the harvest throughout the whole world, throughout the whole world “grow unto the harvest,” throughout the whole world bear with the tares even until the harvest. Let not perverse men seduce you, that chaff so light, which flies out of the floor before the coming of the Winnower; let them not seduce you. Hold them fast even to this single parable of the tares, and suffer them not to speak of anything else. This man, one will say, surrendered[ 1104 ] the Scriptures; no, not so: but this other man surrendered them. Whosoever it might be who has surrendered them, has their faithlessness made void the faithfulness of God? What is “the faithfulness of God”? That which He promised to Abraham, saying, “In thy seed shall all nations be blessed.”( Gen. xxvi. 4 . ) What is the faithfulness of God? “Let both grow together until the harvest.” Grow where? Throughout the field. What is throughout the field? Throughout the world.

22. Here they say; “It is true both kinds did once grow throughout the world, but the good wheat is diminished, and confined to this our country, and our small communion.”[ 1105 ] But the Lord doth not allow thee to interpret as thou wilt. He who explaineth this parable Himself, shutteth thy mouth, thy sacrilegious, profane, and ungodly mouth, that is counter to thine own interests, while thou runnest counter to the testator, even as he calleth thee to the inheritance. How doth He shut thy mouth? by saying, “Let both grow together until the harvest.”( Matt. xiii. 30 . ) If the harvest hath come already, let us believe that the wheat has been diminished. Though not even then shall it be diminished, but gathered up into the barn. For so He saith, “Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into My barn.” If then they grow until the harvest, and after the harvest are gathered in, how are they diminished, thou wicked, thou ungodly one? I grant that in comparison with the tares and chaff the wheat is less in quantity; still “both grow together until the harvest.” For “when iniquity aboundeth, the love of many waxeth cold;”( Matt. xxiv. 12 . ) the tares and the chaff multiply. But because throughout the whole world wheat cannot be wanting, which “by enduring unto the end shall be saved, both grow together until the harvest.” And if because of the abundance of the wicked it is said, “When the Son of Man cometh, thinkest thou, shall He find faith on the earth?”( Luke xviii. 8 , Vulgate. ) and by this denomination are signified all those who by transgression of the law imitate him to whom it was said,” Earth thou art, and unto earth shalt thou return;”( Gen. iii. 19 , Sept. ) yet because of the abundance of the good also, and because of him to whom it was said, “Thy seed shall be as the stars of heaven, and as the sand of the sea;”( Gen. xv. 5 and xxii. 17 . ) is that also written, “Many shall come from the East and West, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, in the kingdom of God.”( Matt. viii. 11 . ) “Both” then “grow together until the harvest,” and both the tares or chaff have their passages in the Scriptures, and the wheat theirs. And they who do not understand them, confound them and are themselves confounded; and in their blind desire they make such an uproar, that they will not be silenced even by the clear manifestation of the truth.

23. See, they say, the Prophet says, “Depart ye, go ye out from thence, and touch no unclean thing;”( Isa. lii. 11 . ) how then for peace sake should we bear with the wicked, from whom we are commanded to “go out and depart that we touch not the unclean thing”? We understand that “departure” spiritually, they corporally. For I also cry out with the Prophet (for however mean a vessel I am, God maketh use of me to minister to you); I also cry out and say to you, “Depart ye, go ye out from thence, and touch not the unclean thing;” but with the touch of the heart, not of the body. For what is it to “touch the unclean thing,” but to consent to sin. And what is it to “go out from thence,” but to do what appertaineth to the rebuking of the wicked, as far as can be done, according to each one’s grade and condition,[ 1106 ] with the maintenance of peace? Thou art displeased at a man’s sin, thou hast not “touched the unclean thing.” Thou hast reproved, rebuked, admonished him, hast administered, if the case required it, a suitable discipline, and such as doth not violate unity; then thou hast “gone out from thence.” Now consider the actions of the Saints, lest perhaps this should seem to be an interpretation of my own. As Saints have understood these words, so surely ought they to be understood. “Go ye out from them,” says the Prophet. I will first maintain this meaning of the words from their customary use, and will afterwards show that that meaning is not my own. It often happens that men are accused; and when they are accused they defend themselves, and when the accused defends himself with good reason and justice, the hearers say, “He has got out of this.” Got out; whither has he gone? He abides still in the place where he was, yet has he “got out of this.” How has he got out of it? By the good account he has rendered, and by his most satisfactory defence. This is what the holy Apostles did when they “shook off the dust from their feet”( Luke x. 11 . ) against those who did not receive the message of peace which was sent to them. That watchman, “got out from thence,” to whom it was I said, “I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel.”( Ezek. iii. 17 . ) For it was told him “If thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his way, that wicked one shall die in his iniquity, and thou shalt deliver thy soul.”( Ezek. iii. 19 . ) This if he do, he “goes out from him,” not by a bodily separation, but by the defence of his own work. For he did what it was his duty to do; though the other, whose duty it was to obey, obeyed not. This then is that, “Go ye out from thence.”

24. So cried Moses and Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. Let us see then if they acted thus, if they left the people of God, and betook themselves to other nations. How many and vehement rebukes did Jeremiah utter against the sinners, and wicked ones of his people. Yet he lived amongst them, he entered into the same temple with them, celebrated the same mysteries;[ 1107 ] he lived in that congregation of wicked men, but by his crying out “he went out from them.” This is “to go out from them;” this is not “to touch the unclean thing,” the not consenting to them in will, and the not sparing them in word. What shall I say of Jeremiah, of Isaiah, of Daniel, and Ezekiel, and the rest of the prophets, who did not retire from the wicked people, lest they should desert the good who were mingled with that people, among whom themselves were able to be such as they were? When Moses himself, Brethren, was receiving the law in the mount, the people below made an idol.( Exod. xxxii . ) The people of God, the people who had been led through the waves of the Red Sea which gave way to them, and overwhelmed their enemies who followed after, after so many signs and miracles displayed in plagues upon the Egyptians even unto death, and for “their” protection unto deliverance, yet demanded an idol, obtained an idol by force, made an idol, adored an idol, sacrificed unto an idol. God showeth His servant what the people had done, and saith that He will destroy them from before His Face. Moses maketh intercession for them as he was about to return to this people; yet had he a good opportunity of retiring and “going out from them,” as these persons understand it, that he might “not touch the unclean thing,” might not live among them; but he did not so. And that he might not seem to have acted thus from necessity rather than from love, God offered him another people; so that He might destroy these: “I will make of thee,” He said, “a great nation.” ( Exod. xxxii. 10 . ) But he did not accept it; he cleaveth to the sinners, he prayeth for the sinners. And how does he pray? O signal proof of love, my Brethren! How does he pray? Mark that, as it were, mother’s fondness, of which I have often spoken. When God threatened the sacrilegious people, Moses’ tender heart trembled, and on their behalf he opposed himself to the wrath of God. “Lord,” he says, “if Thou wilt forgive their sin, forgive; but if not, blot me out of Thy book which Thou hast written.”( Exod. xxxii. 32 . ) With what a father’s and mother’s[ 1108 ] fondness, yet with what assurance said he this, as he considered at once the justice and the mercy of God; that in that He is just, He would not destroy the righteous man; and that in that He is merciful, He would pardon the sinners.

25. It is now surely plain to your discernment,[ 1109 ] in what manner all such testimonies of the Scriptures are to be received; so that when Scripture says, that we must depart from the wicked, we are bid to understand this in no other sense, but that we depart in heart; lest by the separation from the good, we commit a greater evil than we shrink from in the union of the wicked, as these Donatists have done. But if they were truly good, and so had reproved the wicked, and not rather being themselves wicked, had defamed [ 1110 ] the good, they would for peace sake bear with any, be they who they might, seeing they have received the Maximianists[ 1111 ] as sound, whom they condemned before as lost. Undoubtedly the Prophet has said plainly, “Depart ye, go ye out from thence, and touch not the unclean thing.” But that I may understand what he said, I pay attention to what he did. By his own deeds he explains his words. He said, “Depart ye.” To whom did he say so? To the righteous of course. From whom did he bid them depart? From sinners and wicked men of course. I ask then, did he depart from such himself? I find that he did not. So then he understood it in another sense. For surely he would be the first to do what he enjoined. He departed from them in heart, he rebuked and reproved them. By keeping himself from consenting to them, he “did not touch the unclean thing;” but by rebuking them he “went out” free in the sight of God; and to him God neither imputeth his own sins, because he sinned not; nor the sins of others, because he approved them not; nor negligence, because he kept not silence; nor pride, because he continued in unity. So then, my Brethren, how many soever ye have among you, who are still weighed down by the love of the world, covetous, or perjured persons, adulterers, spectacle hunters, consulters of astrologers, of fanatics, of soothsayers, of augurs and diviners, drunkards, sensualists, whatever there is of bad that ye know ye have among you; show your disapprobation of it all as far as ye are able, that ye may in heart “depart;” and reprove them, that ye may “go out from them;” and consent not to them, that “ye touch not the unclean thing.”

Augustine, Saint. The Complete Works of St. Augustine: Cross-linked to the Bible and with in-line footnotes (pp. 11641-11648). Kindle Edition.


Of course, there's no guarantee that he's right. But he may be right. If he is, I think I know what he would say as to this.

There is one Holy Catholic Church. She is known by her universality, the marks of her succession. At the end of her days, Scripture tells us what will happen to her and in her.

The Lord will take care to gather His sheep "out of her," and from the tares overunning, prevalent in her under the "operation of error" - Himself and His angels, at the end of the world.

In Christ,

tornpage
tornpage
tornpage

Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Re: Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

Post  tornpage Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:14 am

In the original post in this thread I referenced Bishop Williamson's recent comments. As noted, his conclusion to those comments was:


Woe to Catholic Tradition, or to its “Resistance,” that would lose all respect for Catholic Authority, because that Authority is divine, and it must and will come back, in full force, one day, just like the sun after an eclipse, and before world’s end.


The "coming back" is a reference to what is elsewhere referred to as a period of peace, usually connected with the prophesied triumph of the Immaculate Heart, a Great Monarch, and sometimes preceded by a Three Days of Darkness. All of this backed up by the comments of seers and visionaries. What it is not backed up with, or only supported with by the loosest interpretation, is Scripture.

I personally call this "pious prophecy," both to remind me that the supporters of the same are usually genuinely pious Catholic brothers and sisters, and also because "pious" rings with, to my ear, "pie in the sky."

Father David Nix - who has a very good blog worth reading - had an entry in 2018 entitled," What Exactly is the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary" - https://padreperegrino.org/2018/05/tihm/

In the article, Father Nix notes:


But what does it mean that “In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph“? This is only my theory but I believe there are only two possibilities for this triumph period of peace, and they are indeed mutually exclusive:

1) The end of the world.

or

2) The transition from this turbulent fifth age of the Church into the sixth and peaceful age of the Church.

The second admittedly sounds strange, and we will get to that later. But let’s start with evidence for the first via a Vatican-approved apparition of Mary . . .  


Yes, father, if one is immersed in Scripture, as I try to be, the second option indeed "sounds strange." But more on that later. I'm glad that Fr. Nix at leasts presents God's view of the matter - we know it's His view because it's written down in His infallible, inerrant Word left to His children - "the end of the world," as a viable option. But, again, more on that later.

But why start the "evidence" for the first, end of the world, view with "a Vatican-approved apparition of Mary," the "visionaries of Our Lady of Kibeho"? Why not look to Scripture, at least "first"? Fr. Nix does at least footnote Matthew 24, and says of this "end of the world" option viewed by the visionaries of Our Lady of Kibeho that "it seems that many of the criteria for Christ’s second coming found in Matthew 24 have been fulfilled." Indeed.

He then goes on to the second option, the era of peace for the Church, and says, "However, there is more evidence for the second theory, namely that the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary is not going to be the end of the world, but rather a new era of peace coming upon the Church and the whole world."

Hmmm . . . despite many of the Matthew 24 criteria being met by the "end of the world' prophecies of "the visionaries of Our Lady of Kibeho," there is "more" evidence of the latter view, the era of peace. Well, I'll note minimally that "more" is not better, and move on.  

Where begins this "more" evidence? Well, it's already found in "Ven. Bartholomew Holzhauser." And then Fr. Nix highlights in a link that ubiquitous work on Catholic blogs when prophecy comes up, Yves DuPont's Catholic Prophecy, The Coming Chastisement, with the inevitable appearance of the Great Catholic Monarch, and then mention of a "Holy Pope" - which I omitted above. Mea culpa.

Of course, Fr. Nix inevitably goes into the Consecration of Russia, etc.

Why does this seem to bother me? Well, I have a roadmap given to me by a reliable cartography of the landscape and roadways of the future and the end times. And it ain't complicated as to what will happen, and how it ends. It has the wonderful resonance of the most powerful poetry, fittingly, and more and more comes to one in terms of meaning as one ponders and "sees." The pattern is clear. The details are fuzzy, but getting clearer, as Scripture says they will.

What is clear is that there is a Great Apostasy/Great Tribulation, connected with an Abomination of Desolation, and an end that comes after the Gospel has been preached throughout the world, an end brought about by Our Lord's Second Advent in fiery Judgment (for the nonelect) and with eternal, bodily salvation for some (the elect).

There is no period of earthly peace that I see in this pattern . . . beyond the "peace" that the Church brings with the Gospel message to the world, in proclamation of the Lord whose "kingdom is not of this world." John 18:36.

But, by golly, our "seers" and "visionaries" like Ven. Holzhauser will "see" a wordly peace, a worldly kingdom of material peace and prosperity. I guess we're a lot like the Jews with their dreams of a worldly and political leader/king - only we call him The Great Monarch, and throw in a "Holy Pope."

We'll have our peace, and eat it too.  

I'll go with the seers named Jesus Christ, St. Paul and St. John. Here's what they say, definitively, on the subject. And of course I could cite more. Anyway, no further comment by me is necessary.

See how this plays out yourself, by He who knows.


Matthew 24

24 And Jesus being come out of the temple, went away. And his disciples came to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And he answering, said to them: Do you see all these things? Amen I say to you there shall not be left here a stone upon a stone that shall not be destroyed.

3 And when he was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the consummation of the world?

4 And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you:

5 For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many.

6 And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be pestilences, and famines, and earthquakes in places:

8 Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall put you to death: and you shall be hated by all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be scandalized: and shall betray one another: and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many.

12 And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold.

13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come.

15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.

16 Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains:

17 And he that is on the housetop, let him not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 And he that is in the field, let him not go back to take his coat.

19 And woe to them that are with child, and that give suck in those days.

20 But pray that your flight be not in the winter, or on the sabbath.

21 For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be.

22 And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say to you: Lo here is Christ, or there, do not believe him.

24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.

25 Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.

26 If therefore they shall say to you: Behold he is in the desert, go ye not out: Behold he is in the closets, believe it not.

27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and appeareth even into the west: so shall the coming of the Son of man be.

28 Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together.

29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.

31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet, and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.


32 And from the fig tree learn a parable: When the branch thereof is now tender, and the leaves come forth, you know that summer is nigh.

33 So you also, when you shall see all these things, know ye that it is nigh, even at the doors.

34 Amen I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass, but my words shall not pass.

36 But of that day and hour no one knoweth, not the angels of heaven, but the Father alone.

37 And as in the days of Noe, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, even till that day in which Noe entered into the ark,

39 And they knew not till the flood came, and took them all away; so also shall the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then two shall be in the field: one shall be taken, and one shall be left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill: one shall be taken, and one shall be left.

42 Watch ye therefore, because ye know not what hour your Lord will come.

43 But know this ye, that if the goodman of the house knew at what hour the thief would come, he would certainly watch, and would not suffer his house to be broken open.

44 Wherefore be you also ready, because at what hour you know not the Son of man will come.

45 Who, thinkest thou, is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath appointed over his family, to give them meat in season.

46 Blessed is that servant, whom when his lord shall come he shall find so doing.

47 Amen I say to you, he shall place him over all his goods.

48 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord is long a coming:

49 And shall begin to strike his fellow servants, and shall eat and drink with drunkards:

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day that he hopeth not, and at an hour that he knoweth not:

51 And shall separate him, and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


2 Thessalonians 2

2 And we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him:

2 That you be not easily moved from your sense, nor be terrified, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by epistle, as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

4 Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God.

5 Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now you know what withholdeth, that he may be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him,

9 Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,

10 And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:

11 That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity.

12 But we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved of God, for that God hath chosen you firstfruits unto salvation, in sanctification of the spirit, and faith of the truth:

13 Whereunto also he hath called you by our gospel, unto the purchasing of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.

15 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace,

16 Exhort your hearts, and confirm you in every good work and word.


Apoc. 20

20 And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

3 And he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should no more seduce the nations, till the thousand years be finished. And after that, he must be loosed a little time.

4 And I saw seats; and they sat upon them; and judgment was given unto them; and the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not adored the beast nor his image, nor received his character on their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. In these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ; and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years shall be finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go forth, and seduce the nations, which are over the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, and shall gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

8 And they came upon the breadth of the earth, and encompassed the camp of the saints, and the beloved city.

9 And there came down fire from God out of heaven, and devoured them; and the devil, who seduced them, was cast into the pool of fire and brimstone, where both the beast


10 And the false prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and one sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled away, and there was no place found for them.

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works.

14 And hell and death were cast into the pool of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the pool of fire.
tornpage
tornpage

Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Re: Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

Post  tornpage Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:52 am

Cardinal Manning has a powerful study on related end times matters called, The Present Crisis of the Holy See.

In my view, he identifies the "glory age" of the Church, the apex of its authority and spread of "peace," and it's not in the offing - it's come and gone:


The Church expanded and grew in vigour, in strength, and in power, in proportion as the heathen Empire of Rome strove to extinguish and to destroy it. And this mighty conflict between the two sovereignties at last ended in the conversion of the empire to Christianity, and, therefore, in the enthronement of the Church of God in a supremacy over the powers of the whole world. Then right had power and supremacy over might, and the Divine authority prevailed over the authority of man; then these two powers were blended and fused together: they became one great authority, the emperor ruling from his throne within the sphere of his earthly jurisdiction, and the Supreme Pontiff ruling likewise from a throne of higher sovereignty over the nations of the world, until God in His providence removed the empire from Rome, and planted it upon the shores of the Bosphorus.

Manning, Archbishop Henry. The Present Crisis of the Holy See . Desert Will Flower iPress. Kindle Edition.



. . . but about the seventh century it was firmly established, and that which the Divine Providence had prepared from the beginning received its full manifestation; and no sooner was the material power which once reigned in Rome consecrated and sanctified by the investiture of the Vicar of Jesus Christ with temporal sovereignty over the city where he dwelt, than he began to create throughout Europe the order of Christian civilisation, Christian empires, Christian monarchies, which, confederated together, have maintained the peace and order of the world from that hour to this. What we call Christendom, that is to say, the great family of Christian nations, Christian races organised and knit together with their princes and their legislatures, by international law, mutual contracts, treaties, diplomacy, and the like, which bind them together in one compact body,—what is this but the security of the world against disorder, turbulence, and lawlessness? And now for these twelve hundred years the peace, the perpetuity, and the fruitfulness of the Christian civilisation of Europe, has been owing solely in its principle to this consecration of the power and the authority of the great Empire of Rome, taken up of old, perpetuated, preserved, as I have said, by the salt which had been sprinkled from heaven and continued in the person of the Supreme Pontiff, and in that order of Christian civilisation of which he has been the creator.


Manning, Archbishop Henry. The Present Crisis of the Holy See . Desert Will Flower iPress. Kindle Edition.


Cardinal Manning has also some very helpful observations about the Great Apostasy, and the apparent or surface contradiction between it and the "gates of hell not prevailing" (Mt. 24;18), and the "Authority" that will restore Order and bring true Peace:


Now, if I am obliged to enter somewhat into the future, I shall confine myself to tracing out a very general outline. The direct tendency of all the events we see at this moment is clearly this, to overthrow Catholic worship throughout the world. Already we see that every Government in Europe is excluding religion from its public acts.


Manning, Archbishop Henry. The Present Crisis of the Holy See . Desert Will Flower iPress. Kindle Edition.

When, I ask, was the Church of God ever in a weaker condition, in a feebler state in the eyes of men, and in this natural order, than it is now? And from whence, I ask, is deliverance to come? Is there on earth any power to intervene? Is there any king, prince, or potentate, that has the power to interpose either his will or his sword for the protection of the Church? Not one; and it is foretold it should be so. Neither need we desire it, for the will of God seems to be otherwise. But there is One Power which will destroy all antagonists; there is One Person who will break down and smite small as the dust of the summer threshing-floor all the enemies of the Church, for it is He who will consume His enemies “with the Spirit of His mouth,” and destroy them “with the brightness of His coming.” It seems as if the Son of God were jealous lest anyone should vindicate His authority. He has claimed the battle to Himself; He has taken up the gage which has been cast down against Him; and prophecy is plain and explicit that the last overthrow of evil will be His; that it will be wrought by no man, but by the Son of God; that all the nations of the world may know that He, and He alone, is King, and that He, and He alone, is God.


Manning, Archbishop Henry. The Present Crisis of the Holy See . Desert Will Flower iPress. Kindle Edition.

No man could break through that circle of omnipotence until the hour came, when by His own will He opened the way for the powers of evil. For this reason He said in the garden, “This is your hour, and the power of darkness.” [60] For this reason, before He gave Himself into the hands of sinners, He exerted once more the majesty of His power, and when they came to take Him, He rose and said, “I am He,” [61] and “they went backward, and fell to the ground.” Having vindicated His divine majesty, He delivered Himself into the hands of sinners. So too, He said, when He stood before Pilate, “Thou shouldst not have any power against Me, unless it were given thee from above.” [62] It was the will of God; it was the concession of the Father that Pilate had power over His incarnate Son. Again, He said, “Thinkest thou that I cannot ask My Father, and He will give Me presently more than twelve legions of angels? how then shall the Scripture be fulfilled?” [63] In like manner with His Church. Until the hour is come when the barrier shall, by the Divine will, be taken out of the way, no one has power to lay a hand upon it. The gates of hell may war against it; they may strive and wrestle, as they struggle now, with the Vicar of our Lord; but no one has the power to move Him one step, until the hour shall come when the Son of God shall permit, for a time, the powers of evil to prevail. That He will permit it for a time stands in the book of prophecy. When the hindrance is taken away, the man of sin will be revealed; then will come the persecution of three years and a half, short, but terrible, during which the Church of God will return into its state of suffering, as in the beginning; and the imperishable Church of God, by its inextinguishable life derived from the pierced side of Jesus, which for three hundred years lived on through blood, will live on still through the fires of the times of Antichrist.

Manning, Archbishop Henry. The Present Crisis of the Holy See . Desert Will Flower iPress. Kindle Edition.


Cardinal Manning's description of the powers of evil "prevailing" for a time - which should caution us and shed some light on what the "gates of hell not prevailing" ultimately and truly means - also accords with Divine Revelation, just as Cardinal Manning said:


Dn 7:21 I beheld, and lo, that horn made war against the saints, and prevailed over them,

Dn 8:24 And his power shall be strengthened, but not by his own force: and he shall lay all things waste, and shall prosper, and do more than can be believed. And he shall destroy the mighty, and the people of the saints,

Apoc. 11:2 But the court, which is without the temple, cast out, and measure it not: because it is given unto the Gentiles, and the holy city they shall tread under foot two and forty months:

Apoc. 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast, that ascendeth out of the abyss, shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Apoc. 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And power was given him over every tribe, and people, and tongue, and nation.

We always hear about how the Church's life mirrors the life of Our Lord. Well, Our Lord died in the flesh. His "body" died, and was silent on the face of the earth while He was in His tomb.

If the analogy is applied and followed in that instance, the Magisterium's voice could indeed go silent for a brief period before the Resurrection of the "body" - and Scripture is clear when that comes: with Our Lord's return in glory.

In Christ,

tornpage
tornpage
tornpage

Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Fr. David Nix Again

Post  tornpage Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:55 am

tornpage wrote:In the original post in this thread I referenced Bishop Williamson's recent comments. As noted, his conclusion to those comments was:


Woe to Catholic Tradition, or to its “Resistance,” that would lose all respect for Catholic Authority, because that Authority is divine, and it must and will come back, in full force, one day, just like the sun after an eclipse, and before world’s end.


The "coming back" is a reference to what is elsewhere referred to as a period of peace, usually connected with the prophesied triumph of the Immaculate Heart, a Great Monarch, and sometimes preceded by a Three Days of Darkness. All of this backed up by the comments of seers and visionaries. What it is not backed up with, or only supported with by the loosest interpretation, is Scripture.

I personally call this "pious prophecy," both to remind me that the supporters of the same are usually genuinely pious Catholic brothers and sisters, and also because "pious" rings with, to my ear, "pie in the sky."

Father David Nix - who has a very good blog worth reading - had an entry in 2018 entitled," What Exactly is the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary" - https://padreperegrino.org/2018/05/tihm/

In the article, Father Nix notes:


But what does it mean that “In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph“? This is only my theory but I believe there are only two possibilities for this triumph period of peace, and they are indeed mutually exclusive:

1) The end of the world.

or

2) The transition from this turbulent fifth age of the Church into the sixth and peaceful age of the Church.

The second admittedly sounds strange, and we will get to that later. But let’s start with evidence for the first via a Vatican-approved apparition of Mary . . .  


Yes, father, if one is immersed in Scripture, as I try to be, the second option indeed "sounds strange." But more on that later. I'm glad that Fr. Nix at leasts presents God's view of the matter - we know it's His view because it's written down in His infallible, inerrant Word left to His children - "the end of the world," as a viable option. But, again, more on that later.

But why start the "evidence" for the first, end of the world, view with "a Vatican-approved apparition of Mary," the "visionaries of Our Lady of Kibeho"? Why not look to Scripture, at least "first"? Fr. Nix does at least footnote Matthew 24, and says of this "end of the world" option viewed by the visionaries of Our Lady of Kibeho that "it seems that many of the criteria for Christ’s second coming found in Matthew 24 have been fulfilled." Indeed.

He then goes on to the second option, the era of peace for the Church, and says, "However, there is more evidence for the second theory, namely that the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary is not going to be the end of the world, but rather a new era of peace coming upon the Church and the whole world."

Hmmm . . . despite many of the Matthew 24 criteria being met by the "end of the world' prophecies of "the visionaries of Our Lady of Kibeho," there is "more" evidence of the latter view, the era of peace. Well, I'll note minimally that "more" is not better, and move on.  

Where begins this "more" evidence? Well, it's already found in "Ven. Bartholomew Holzhauser." And then Fr. Nix highlights in a link that ubiquitous work on Catholic blogs when prophecy comes up, Yves DuPont's Catholic Prophecy, The Coming Chastisement, with the inevitable appearance of the Great Catholic Monarch, and then mention of a "Holy Pope" - which I omitted above. Mea culpa.

Of course, Fr. Nix inevitably goes into the Consecration of Russia, etc.

Why does this seem to bother me? Well, I have a roadmap given to me by a reliable cartography of the landscape and roadways of the future and the end times. And it ain't complicated as to what will happen, and how it ends. It has the wonderful resonance of the most powerful poetry, fittingly, and more and more comes to one in terms of meaning as one ponders and "sees." The pattern is clear. The details are fuzzy, but getting clearer, as Scripture says they will.

What is clear is that there is a Great Apostasy/Great Tribulation, connected with an Abomination of Desolation, and an end that comes after the Gospel has been preached throughout the world, an end brought about by Our Lord's Second Advent in fiery Judgment (for the nonelect) and with eternal, bodily salvation for some (the elect).

There is no period of earthly peace that I see in this pattern . . . beyond the "peace" that the Church brings with the Gospel message to the world, in proclamation of the Lord whose "kingdom is not of this world." John 18:36.

But, by golly, our "seers" and "visionaries" like Ven. Holzhauser will "see" a wordly peace, a worldly kingdom of material peace and prosperity. I guess we're a lot like the Jews with their dreams of a worldly and political leader/king - only we call him The Great Monarch, and throw in a "Holy Pope."

We'll have our peace, and eat it too.  

I'll go with the seers named Jesus Christ, St. Paul and St. John. Here's what they say, definitively, on the subject. And of course I could cite more. Anyway, no further comment by me is necessary.

See how this plays out yourself, by He who knows.


Matthew 24

24 And Jesus being come out of the temple, went away. And his disciples came to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And he answering, said to them: Do you see all these things? Amen I say to you there shall not be left here a stone upon a stone that shall not be destroyed.

3 And when he was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the consummation of the world?

4 And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you:

5 For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many.

6 And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be pestilences, and famines, and earthquakes in places:

8 Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall put you to death: and you shall be hated by all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be scandalized: and shall betray one another: and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many.

12 And because iniquity hath abounded, the charity of many shall grow cold.

13 But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come.

15 When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.

16 Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains:

17 And he that is on the housetop, let him not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 And he that is in the field, let him not go back to take his coat.

19 And woe to them that are with child, and that give suck in those days.

20 But pray that your flight be not in the winter, or on the sabbath.

21 For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be.

22 And unless those days had been shortened, no flesh should be saved: but for the sake of the elect those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say to you: Lo here is Christ, or there, do not believe him.

24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.

25 Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.

26 If therefore they shall say to you: Behold he is in the desert, go ye not out: Behold he is in the closets, believe it not.

27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and appeareth even into the west: so shall the coming of the Son of man be.

28 Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together.

29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.

31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet, and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.


32 And from the fig tree learn a parable: When the branch thereof is now tender, and the leaves come forth, you know that summer is nigh.

33 So you also, when you shall see all these things, know ye that it is nigh, even at the doors.

34 Amen I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass, but my words shall not pass.

36 But of that day and hour no one knoweth, not the angels of heaven, but the Father alone.

37 And as in the days of Noe, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, even till that day in which Noe entered into the ark,

39 And they knew not till the flood came, and took them all away; so also shall the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then two shall be in the field: one shall be taken, and one shall be left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill: one shall be taken, and one shall be left.

42 Watch ye therefore, because ye know not what hour your Lord will come.

43 But know this ye, that if the goodman of the house knew at what hour the thief would come, he would certainly watch, and would not suffer his house to be broken open.

44 Wherefore be you also ready, because at what hour you know not the Son of man will come.

45 Who, thinkest thou, is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath appointed over his family, to give them meat in season.

46 Blessed is that servant, whom when his lord shall come he shall find so doing.

47 Amen I say to you, he shall place him over all his goods.

48 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord is long a coming:

49 And shall begin to strike his fellow servants, and shall eat and drink with drunkards:

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day that he hopeth not, and at an hour that he knoweth not:

51 And shall separate him, and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


2 Thessalonians 2

2 And we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him:

2 That you be not easily moved from your sense, nor be terrified, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by epistle, as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

4 Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God.

5 Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now you know what withholdeth, that he may be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him,

9 Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,

10 And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:

11 That all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but have consented to iniquity.

12 But we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved of God, for that God hath chosen you firstfruits unto salvation, in sanctification of the spirit, and faith of the truth:

13 Whereunto also he hath called you by our gospel, unto the purchasing of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.

15 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace,

16 Exhort your hearts, and confirm you in every good work and word.


Apoc. 20

20 And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

3 And he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should no more seduce the nations, till the thousand years be finished. And after that, he must be loosed a little time.

4 And I saw seats; and they sat upon them; and judgment was given unto them; and the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not adored the beast nor his image, nor received his character on their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. In these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ; and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years shall be finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go forth, and seduce the nations, which are over the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, and shall gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

8 And they came upon the breadth of the earth, and encompassed the camp of the saints, and the beloved city.

9 And there came down fire from God out of heaven, and devoured them; and the devil, who seduced them, was cast into the pool of fire and brimstone, where both the beast


10 And the false prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and one sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and heaven fled away, and there was no place found for them.

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works.

14 And hell and death were cast into the pool of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the pool of fire.


Fr. Nix published a podcast yesterday entitled, "Mary in the Eclipse of the Church":

https://padreperegrino.org/2024/01/maryeclipaud/

Two points regarding the same.

First, Fr. Nix states - not an exact quote perhaps, but if not, close - "I can't name a single ordinary who believes Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus," and challenges someone to name one.

Of course, Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus is a dogma of the Church. If Fr. Nix is right - I think so; I can't name one - what does that say about the Church presently having hierarchs having Christ's authority to teach, sanctify and govern His people - assuming that possession of the Catholic faith by the hierarch is a requirement?

Two, Fr. Nix talks about the "eclipse" of the Church prophecy of La Sallette, and also of St. Augustine equating the Church to the sun, and then notes the Scripture reference of Our Lord in Matthew 24 about the sun being darkened. You can see the whole chapter above, but here it is again:

Mt. 24:29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved:



He then references the pachamma statue again and Fiducia Supplicans, and says, "we're at that level of apostasy." In other words, we're seeing this eclipse.

So, I would ask Fr. Nix to continue reading Mt. 24:


29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved:  30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty. 31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet, and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.


Immediately after the tribulation the "sun is darkened," and "then" Our Lord returns.

I wonder if Fr. Nix still follows Ven. Bartholomew and is still looking for the Great Monarch and the great "age of peace" for the Church.

If so, I would say he needs to take stock and compare the consistency of his views in light of Scripture.

tornpage
tornpage

Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Re: Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

Post  MRyan Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:54 pm

tornpage wrote:

He [Fr. Nix] then references the pachamma statue again and Fiducia Supplicans, and says, "we're at that level of apostasy." In other words, we're seeing this eclipse.

So, I would ask Fr. Nix to continue reading Mt. 24:


29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved:  30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty. 31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet, and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.


Immediately after the tribulation the "sun is darkened," and "then" Our Lord returns.

I wonder if Fr. Nix still follows Ven. Bartholomew and is still looking for the Great Monarch and the great "age of peace" for the Church.

If so, I would say he needs to take stock and compare the consistency of his views in light of Scripture.

Well, "if Fr. Nix still follows Ven. Bartholomew and is still looking for the Great Monarch and the great 'age of peace' for the Church", he runs the risk of being what you call a "pie-in-the-sky" (aka, "pious") Catholic. Yikes!

You've done your homework, and honestly, I cannot find any criticism with your Scriptural-based detailed analysis. Good stuff.

As far as that "explicit" vs. "implicit" faith argument that refuses to die, perhaps I shall return to it, in good order. Is there anything new here that we haven't already covered for the umpteenth time, even if it was 5-6 years ago? But there are a couple of arguments of yours I want to address - and I'll eventually get to it. I hope you'll understand my lack of enthusiasm, for I know this will end only in our usual impasse.

Honestly, every day my mind is racing in so many different directions, what, between the geopolitical, national, and the Church headlines coming out with increasing frequency and fervor. One would think we're in the end times!
MRyan
MRyan

Posts : 2314
Reputation : 2492
Join date : 2010-12-18

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Re: Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

Post  tornpage Wed Jan 17, 2024 6:08 pm

Mike,

Thanks. It is what it is, and it's not the Great Monarch, etc. The Man is Comin' 'Round is what it is.

Btw, I've been in touch with "Struthio," real name Burkhard E. Strauss. He's trying to register, but needs an admin to authorize. I haven't seen anything like an admin here in a long time, so that could be a problem.

As I think I mentioned, I was thinking of reviving Stabat Mater, and will invite him there when I likely do.

Mark
tornpage
tornpage

Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Re: Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

Post  MRyan Wed Jan 17, 2024 7:35 pm

tornpage wrote:Mike,

Thanks. It is what it is, and it's not the Great Monarch, etc. The Man is Comin' 'Round is what it is.

Btw, I've been in touch with "Struthio," real name Burkhard E. Strauss. He's trying to register, but needs an admin to authorize. I haven't seen anything like an admin here in a long time, so that could be a problem.

As I think I mentioned, I was thinking of reviving Stabat Mater, and will invite him there when I likely do.

Mark

Mark, I seem to remember Tancred over at The Eponymous Flower, took over as admin. https://www.theeponymousflower.com/search/label/SSPX

I sent him an email through his Blogspot asking if he's still the Admin and if so, we have someone seeking permission to join. Let's see what happens. It would be nice to have some new thoughtful blood.
MRyan
MRyan

Posts : 2314
Reputation : 2492
Join date : 2010-12-18

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Re: Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

Post  tornpage Thu Jan 18, 2024 10:31 am

MRyan wrote:
tornpage wrote:Mike,

Thanks. It is what it is, and it's not the Great Monarch, etc. The Man is Comin' 'Round is what it is.

Btw, I've been in touch with "Struthio," real name Burkhard E. Strauss. He's trying to register, but needs an admin to authorize. I haven't seen anything like an admin here in a long time, so that could be a problem.

As I think I mentioned, I was thinking of reviving Stabat Mater, and will invite him there when I likely do.

Mark

Mark, I seem to remember Tancred over at The Eponymous Flower, took over as admin. https://www.theeponymousflower.com/search/label/SSPX

I sent him an email through his Blogspot asking if he's still the Admin and if so, we have someone seeking permission to join. Let's see what happens. It would be nice to have some new thoughtful blood.

I hope that works.

If this place does start getting some traction and attracts some others, this could be a problem going forward.
tornpage
tornpage

Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Re: Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

Post  MRyan Thu Jan 18, 2024 12:03 pm

tornpage wrote:
MRyan wrote:
tornpage wrote:Mike,

Thanks. It is what it is, and it's not the Great Monarch, etc. The Man is Comin' 'Round is what it is.

Btw, I've been in touch with "Struthio," real name Burkhard E. Strauss. He's trying to register, but needs an admin to authorize. I haven't seen anything like an admin here in a long time, so that could be a problem.

As I think I mentioned, I was thinking of reviving Stabat Mater, and will invite him there when I likely do.

Mark

Mark, I seem to remember Tancred over at The Eponymous Flower, took over as admin. https://www.theeponymousflower.com/search/label/SSPX

I sent him an email through his Blogspot asking if he's still the Admin and if so, we have someone seeking permission to join. Let's see what happens. It would be nice to have some new thoughtful blood.

I hope that works.

If this place does start getting some traction and attracts some others, this could be a problem going forward.
Not looking good, Tancred hasn't responded, yet. Perhaps he will. After being quiet for these many years, it may take a while before others (Columba, Simple Faith, etc) notice there's some activity here and jump back in.

I'm just getting warmed up on the Usury thread, and there are other hot topics we haven't yet explored, so we'll see where this goes. But in the end, we may have to revive Stabat Mater, as you suggested, especially if there is no Admin.
MRyan
MRyan

Posts : 2314
Reputation : 2492
Join date : 2010-12-18

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Re: Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

Post  tornpage Thu Jan 18, 2024 4:08 pm

MRyan wrote:
tornpage wrote:
MRyan wrote:
tornpage wrote:Mike,

Thanks. It is what it is, and it's not the Great Monarch, etc. The Man is Comin' 'Round is what it is.

Btw, I've been in touch with "Struthio," real name Burkhard E. Strauss. He's trying to register, but needs an admin to authorize. I haven't seen anything like an admin here in a long time, so that could be a problem.

As I think I mentioned, I was thinking of reviving Stabat Mater, and will invite him there when I likely do.

Mark

Mark, I seem to remember Tancred over at The Eponymous Flower, took over as admin. https://www.theeponymousflower.com/search/label/SSPX

I sent him an email through his Blogspot asking if he's still the Admin and if so, we have someone seeking permission to join. Let's see what happens. It would be nice to have some new thoughtful blood.

I hope that works.

If this place does start getting some traction and attracts some others, this could be a problem going forward.
Not looking good, Tancred hasn't responded, yet. Perhaps he will. After being quiet for these many years, it may take a while before others (Columba, Simple Faith, etc) notice there's some activity here and jump back in.

I'm just getting warmed up on the Usury thread, and there are other hot topics we haven't yet explored, so we'll see where this goes. But in the end, we may have to revive Stabat Mater, as you suggested, especially if there is no Admin.

Stabat Mater is running. I've added a new forum, The Great Apostasy.

Link:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/decemrationis/

All welcome. If not a member, I believe all you have to click on is the box (upper right) that says, "Join."
tornpage
tornpage

Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Re: Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

Post  tornpage Thu Jan 18, 2024 4:16 pm

tornpage wrote:
MRyan wrote:
tornpage wrote:
MRyan wrote:
tornpage wrote:Mike,

Thanks. It is what it is, and it's not the Great Monarch, etc. The Man is Comin' 'Round is what it is.

Btw, I've been in touch with "Struthio," real name Burkhard E. Strauss. He's trying to register, but needs an admin to authorize. I haven't seen anything like an admin here in a long time, so that could be a problem.

As I think I mentioned, I was thinking of reviving Stabat Mater, and will invite him there when I likely do.

Mark

Mark, I seem to remember Tancred over at The Eponymous Flower, took over as admin. https://www.theeponymousflower.com/search/label/SSPX

I sent him an email through his Blogspot asking if he's still the Admin and if so, we have someone seeking permission to join. Let's see what happens. It would be nice to have some new thoughtful blood.

I hope that works.

If this place does start getting some traction and attracts some others, this could be a problem going forward.
Not looking good, Tancred hasn't responded, yet. Perhaps he will. After being quiet for these many years, it may take a while before others (Columba, Simple Faith, etc) notice there's some activity here and jump back in.

I'm just getting warmed up on the Usury thread, and there are other hot topics we haven't yet explored, so we'll see where this goes. But in the end, we may have to revive Stabat Mater, as you suggested, especially if there is no Admin.

Stabat Mater is running. I've added a new forum, The Great Apostasy.

Link:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/decemrationis/

All welcome. If not a member, I believe all you have to click on is the box (upper right) that says, "Join."

And "Struthio" has arrived there - "Arsenius."
tornpage
tornpage

Posts : 954
Reputation : 1035
Join date : 2010-12-31

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Re: Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

Post  MRyan Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:42 pm

Tancred (Otremer6) finally replied, tried to sign in, and was blocked by the site owner, Janitor. I sent the following message to the Janitor:

"The administrator, Tancred, tells me you've blocked him. Please let me know your intentions for this forum. We have someone waiting to join and can't. Tancred asks you to:

A) give the forum back to him

Or

B) continue and authorize your new members."

I second that request."

I have the feeling Janitor (John Grassmeier?) is not interested in the administration of this Forum. Fine, he needs to say so we can move on.

MRyan
MRyan

Posts : 2314
Reputation : 2492
Join date : 2010-12-18

Back to top Go down

Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments Empty Re: Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum