Latest topics
Valid Baptism
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus Forum (No Salvation Outside the Church Forum) :: Other topics :: Catholic Living in the Modern World
Page 1 of 1
Valid Baptism
I have a question regarding what constitutes a valid baptism.
Must water be poured on the head of the individual being baptized?
A particular situation has been brought to my attention where the infant had her feet dragged through water while the priest pronounced the words of baptism. However, no water ever touched her head. I have always been under the assumption that water had to at least be poured or sprinkled on the head. But is it valid as long as water touches the skin?
Thanks in advance and God bless.
Allie
Must water be poured on the head of the individual being baptized?
A particular situation has been brought to my attention where the infant had her feet dragged through water while the priest pronounced the words of baptism. However, no water ever touched her head. I have always been under the assumption that water had to at least be poured or sprinkled on the head. But is it valid as long as water touches the skin?
Thanks in advance and God bless.
Allie
Allie- Posts : 100
Reputation : 116
Join date : 2010-12-20
Location : southern Ohio, USA
Re: Valid Baptism
I will have to do some digging, but my first response is to say that the baptism is valid, but illicit. The proper matter of the Sacrament is water, and the form are the words "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen." The liturgical books do specify the head, but as long as the baptism is performed with the proper matter and form it is a valid baptism.
Guest- Guest
Re: Valid Baptism
According to Fr. Z this is invalid:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/06/quaeritur-baptism-practices-again-fr-z-rants/
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/06/quaeritur-baptism-practices-again-fr-z-rants/
Guest- Guest
Re: Valid Baptism
Ok this is pretty serious stuff.
I looked in Moral Theology by Fr. Heribert Jone:
Page 323 says the following:
"Baptism is valid even if the head is entirely covered with sores. It is probably valid if one were to baptize on the breast, neck, or shoulder; probably invalid if administered on the hand, arm or the foot."
This is the book:
http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Theology-Heribert-Jone/dp/0895554720
It is imprimatured 1961. I guess it was a common book for confessors to use pre-Vatican II. Actually I know of some current confessors that use it as well.
That book will actually tell you the morality of any situation that you could ever think up.
So yeah, I would report this to the bishop ASAP and get this person a proper baptism.
I looked in Moral Theology by Fr. Heribert Jone:
Page 323 says the following:
"Baptism is valid even if the head is entirely covered with sores. It is probably valid if one were to baptize on the breast, neck, or shoulder; probably invalid if administered on the hand, arm or the foot."
This is the book:
http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Theology-Heribert-Jone/dp/0895554720
It is imprimatured 1961. I guess it was a common book for confessors to use pre-Vatican II. Actually I know of some current confessors that use it as well.
That book will actually tell you the morality of any situation that you could ever think up.
So yeah, I would report this to the bishop ASAP and get this person a proper baptism.
Guest- Guest
Re: Valid Baptism
My advice to parents would be #1 Get your child baptized in the traditional rite if possible. #2 Take a video recording of the actual baptism. (This way you have the actual baptism documented)
Guest- Guest
Re: Valid Baptism
If priests would just do what they are supposed to do then no one would have to worry.
In the case above, a(nother) priest would probably administer a conditional baptism. I'd also suggest the parents write to their bishop, and to Rome, and find another parish to support.
In the case above, a(nother) priest would probably administer a conditional baptism. I'd also suggest the parents write to their bishop, and to Rome, and find another parish to support.
Guest- Guest
Re: Valid Baptism
I seriously would just find an FSSP, ICKSP, or other traditionalist priest in communion with Rome. I could envision this person going to a Novus Ordo rite priest and just being told "Don't worry about it, trust in God!"
Guest- Guest
Re: Valid Baptism
Thanks for your responses.
I thought this wasn't good and it has been bothering me since I heard it (I was not present at the baptism). The thing is that the parents of this baby most likely will think I am being too "legalistic" or that I am wrong and won't do anything to correct the situation. Not that I really care what they think about me, I'm just concerned for the baby. The church where they have had both of their daughters baptized is on the campus of a local university and is known for being- well, not orthodox to say the least.
I will write to our Archbishop letting him know about this and I will talk to the parents when I see them. Please pray that they will do the right thing.
God bless and thanks again!
Allie
I thought this wasn't good and it has been bothering me since I heard it (I was not present at the baptism). The thing is that the parents of this baby most likely will think I am being too "legalistic" or that I am wrong and won't do anything to correct the situation. Not that I really care what they think about me, I'm just concerned for the baby. The church where they have had both of their daughters baptized is on the campus of a local university and is known for being- well, not orthodox to say the least.
I will write to our Archbishop letting him know about this and I will talk to the parents when I see them. Please pray that they will do the right thing.
God bless and thanks again!
Allie
Allie- Posts : 100
Reputation : 116
Join date : 2010-12-20
Location : southern Ohio, USA
Re: Valid Baptism
I would suggest just writing the Bishop about it and have him take it from there. The parents are more likely to listen of the diocesan office calls them in the context of "We have a problem with this priest" rather than you telling the bishop's office AND them. Then they will know that you are the one who reported it and maybe they will not take it well.
Guest- Guest
Re: Valid Baptism
RashaLampa wrote:I would suggest just writing the Bishop about it and have him take it from there. The parents are more likely to listen of the diocesan office calls them in the context of "We have a problem with this priest" rather than you telling the bishop's office AND them. Then they will know that you are the one who reported it and maybe they will not take it well.
True, Rasha! I will take your advice and just write the Bishop.
Thanks again!
Allie- Posts : 100
Reputation : 116
Join date : 2010-12-20
Location : southern Ohio, USA
Similar topics
» From "Baptism and Baptism of Desire," by Raymond Taouk
» Baptism or baptism of desire. What are the fruits?
» The Fathers on Baptism of Blood
» Co-Redemptrix and baptism of desire
» Reconsideration of Baptism of Desire.
» Baptism or baptism of desire. What are the fruits?
» The Fathers on Baptism of Blood
» Co-Redemptrix and baptism of desire
» Reconsideration of Baptism of Desire.
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus Forum (No Salvation Outside the Church Forum) :: Other topics :: Catholic Living in the Modern World
Page 1 of 1
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:46 am by tornpage
» Defilement of the Temple
Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:44 am by tornpage
» Forum update
Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:24 am by tornpage
» Bishop Williamson's Recent Comments
Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:42 pm by MRyan
» The Mysterious 45 days of Daniel 12:11-12
Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:04 am by tornpage
» St. Bonaventure on the Necessity of Baptism
Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:06 pm by tornpage
» Isaiah 22:20-25
Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:44 am by tornpage
» Translation of Bellarmine's De Amissione Gratiae, Bk. VI
Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:04 am by tornpage
» Orestes Brownson Nails it on Baptism of Desire
Thu Jan 18, 2024 3:06 pm by MRyan
» Do Feeneyites still exist?
Wed Jan 17, 2024 8:02 am by Jehanne
» Sedevacantism and the Church's Indefectibility
Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:22 pm by tornpage
» Inallible safety?
Thu Jan 11, 2024 1:47 pm by MRyan
» Usury - Has the Church Erred?
Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:05 pm by tornpage
» Rethink "Feeneyism"?
Tue Jan 09, 2024 8:40 pm by MRyan
» SSPX cannot accept Vatican Council II because of the restrictions placed by the Jewish Left
Fri Jan 05, 2024 8:57 am by Jehanne
» Anyone still around?
Mon Jan 01, 2024 11:04 pm by Jehanne
» Angelqueen.org???
Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:38 am by Paul
» Vatican (CDF/Ecclesia Dei) has no objection if the SSPX and all religious communities affirm Vatican Council II (without the premise)
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:29 am by Lionel L. Andrades
» Piazza Spagna - mission
Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:06 am by Lionel L. Andrades
» Fund,Catholic organisation needed to help Catholic priests in Italy like Fr. Alessandro Minutella
Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:52 am by Lionel L. Andrades