Forum back

[Guest]

Ok, well I am opening the forum back up to whomever is interested. I am going to try to check in at least 15 min a day.

I will warn you all though if people resort to name-calling or "reporting" me and trying to get the forum shut down I will just ban you with no warning.

[Guest]

I see some people have been signing in lately even though the forum is locked hopefully the word will spread.

[George Brenner]

God Bless you, RashaLampa,

I agree 100 percent on what you said about proper posting conduct.


JMJ,


George

[columba]

Hi Rasha, hi George.
Hope you are all well.
Happy first Sunday of Advent.

[Guest]

Well, the new translation finally goes into effect today. But I won't notice because I am going to Divine Liturgy.

[Guest]

Welcome back Columba!

[DeSelby]

Hello to all of you. I was happily surprised to see the forum back.

Well, the new translation finally goes into effect today. But I won't notice because I am going to Divine Liturgy.

I think the new translation was over-hyped.

The same cabal still runs the show. For instance, at my parish, we had a new hymnal (http://www.giamusic.com/sacred_music/hymnals_new_worshipIV.cfm)...


"The section of Rites of the Church presents the sacramental rituals with an outline of each rite, ritual commentary, and musical elements such as responsorial psalms and acclamations- material intended to enable the average worshiper to participate fully in these liturgies."

This section is problematic I think because it presents a watered down view of each of the Rites of the Church. I would even say borderline heresy in certain parts, or at least tending toward it.

Examples:

Order of Mass
The Church gathers on the Lord’s Day to listen to Scripture, to offer prayers, to give thanks and praise to God while recalling God’s gifts in creation and saving deeds in Jesus, and to share in Holy Communion.
In these rites of word and eucharist, the Church keeps Sunday as the Lord’s Day, the day of creation and resurrection, the “eighth day” when the fullness of God’s kingdom is anticipated. The Mass or eucharistic celebration of the Christian community has rites of gathering, of word, of eucharist, of dismissal. All those who gather constitute the assembly. One member of this assembly who has been ordained to the presbyterate or episcopate, the priesthood, leads the opening and closing prayers and the eucharistic prayer, and presides over the whole assembly. A member ordained to the diaconate may assist, read the gospel, and preach. Other members of the assembly are chosen and trained for various ministries: These are the readers, servers, ushers, musicians, communion ministers. All of these assist the assembly. It is the assembly itself, all those present, that does the liturgy.
The Order of Mass which follows is familiar to all who regularly join in this assembly. It is learned through repetition. This Order of Mass leaves many decisions to the local community, and others are determined by the various seasons of the liturgical year.

...They are obsessed with "the assembly".

Liturgy of the Eucharist
To celebrate the Eucharist means to give thanks and praise. When the altar has been prepared with the bread and wine, the assembly joins the priest in remembering the gracious gifts of God in creation and God’s saving deeds. The center of this is the paschal mystery, the death of our Lord Jesus Christ which destroyed the power of death and his rising which brings us life. The mystery in which we were baptized we proclaim each Sunday at the Eucharist. It is the very shape of Christian life. We find this in the simple bread and wine which stir our remembering and draw forth our prayer of thanksgiving. “Fruit of the earth and work of human hands,” the bread and wine become our Holy Communion in the Body and Blood of the Lord. We eat and drink to proclaim that we belong to one another and to the Lord.
The members of the assembly quietly prepare themselves even as the table is prepared. The priest then invites all to lift up their hearts and join in the eucharistic prayer. All do this by giving their full attention and by singing the acclamations from the “Holy, Holy, Holy” to the great “Amen.” Then the assembly joins in the Lord’s Prayer, the sign of peace and the “Lamb of God” litany which accompanies the breaking of bread. Ministers of communion assist the assembly to share the Body and Blood of Christ. A time of silence and prayer concludes the liturgy of the eucharist.

Still not one word about the representation of the sacrifice on the cross, that it is propitiatory for the living and the dead, etc.

22nd Session of the Council of Trent, Chapter 9, Canon III: "If any one saith, that the sacrifice of the mass is only a sacrifice of praise and of thanksgiving; or, that it is a bare commemoration of the sacrifice consummated on the cross, but not a propitiatory sacrifice; or, that it profits him only who receives; and that it ought not to be offered for the living and the dead for sins, pains, satisfactions, and other necessities; let him be anathema."

Yes, they never come out and directly say the mass is not a sacrifice, or anything like that, but one would have no idea that it is if they only read this outline. It's as if they implicitly deny it.

Other things could be brought to bear against this but I won't go in to at depth right now.

Liturgy of the Word
The Church listens to and—through the weeks and years—is shaped by the word of God. Those who have gathered for the Sunday liturgy are to give their full attention to the words of the reader. A time of silence and reflection follows each of the two readings. After the first reading, this reflection continues in the singing of the psalm. A homily, bringing together the scripture readings and the life of the community, follows the gospel. The liturgy of the word concludes with the dismissal of the catechumens, the creed and the prayers of intercession. In the latter, the assembly continues its constant work of recalling and praying for the universal Church and all those in need.
This reading and hearing of the word—simple things that they are—are the foundation of the liturgical celebration. The public reading of Scripture and the rituals which surround this—silence and psalm and acclamation, posture and gesture, preaching and litany of intercession—gather the Church generation after generation. They gather and sustain and gradually make of us the image of Christ.

The last paragraph puts the Liturgy of the Word over and above the Liturgy of the Eucharist; the "public reading of Scripture and the rituals which surround this" over the Eucharist.

I should probably just write a letter to my bishop and see what he thinks.

Anyway, yeah . . . how was Divine Liturgy?

[columba]

I also notice the word "table" in place of "altar." Goes to show this anemic understanding of the Mass.
Your right DeSelby; the changes haven't altered mindsets. In practical terms they are merely cosmetic.

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