Padre Pio and Salvation Outside The Church

Hello all, I'm new here, so a brief intro. I am a european male in my 40s. I have been reading some of the posts here on the never-ending arguments about salvation outside the church, I am no further forward, so I searched to find anything Padre Pio had said or done regarding it and I found the following article. I would really appreciate all comments on it, particularly on the authenticity of it. I also wonder have the Dimond bros. or any other sedevacantists ever discussed or commented on the Padre's stance. Thanks in advance...

http://www.romancatholicism.org/pio-sedevacantist websites.htm

We've actually made some progress on this one:

The holy synod especially condemns and censures, in the book, the assertion which is scandalous, erroneous in the faith and offensive to the ears of the pious faithful, namely: Christ sins daily and has sinned daily from his very beginning, even though he avers that he does not understand this as of Christ our saviour, head of the church, but as referring to his members, which together with Christ the head form the one Christ, as he asserts. Also, the propositions, and ones similar to them, which the synod declares are contained in the articles condemned at the sacred council of Constance, namely the following. Not all the justified faithful are members of Christ, but only the elect, who finally will reign with Christ for ever. The members of Christ, from whom the church is constituted, are taken according to the ineffable foreknowledge of God; and the church is constituted only from those who are called according to his purpose of election. To be a member of Christ, it is not enough to be united with him in the bond of charity, some other union is needed. Also the following...(Council of Florence)

It must be admitted that some individuals who are outside the canonical boundaries of the Catholic Church are not culpable to the extent of mortal sin. Still, there is no harm in telling non-Catholics that they need to be fully canonical Catholics in order to have assurance of salvation, which is what we "neo-Feeneyites" will continue to proclaim "from the housetops."

Thanks for your response Jehanne. Does that mean though that Padre Pio was in the wrong here? (that is if the stories attributed to him are correct)

Salutary repentance has always been "in the cards," so to speak, even in the "Feeneyite" literature. Here's the link to the article, as the one above appears to be broken:

www dot roman no space catholicism dot org slash pio dash m no space h no space f no space m no space dot html

(Okay, Rasha has some edits going on.)

RememberGethsemane wrote:

Hello all, I'm new here, so a brief intro. I am a european male in my 40s. I have been reading some of the posts here on the never-ending arguments about salvation outside the church, I am no further forward, so I searched to find anything Padre Pio had said or done regarding it and I found the following article. I would really appreciate all comments on it, particularly on the authenticity of it. I also wonder have the Dimond bros. or any other sedevacantists ever discussed or commented on the Padre's stance. Thanks in advance...

Welcome aboard Gethsemane! The following is taken from the book Padre Pio: A Catholic priest who worked miracles and bore the wounds of Jesus Christ on His Body written by Bro. Michael Dimond:

On the Church, his order, the justice of God, the world, and souls being lost to Hell

Concerning his Franciscan Province, in a letter December 29, 1912, Padre Pio wrote: “For some time past He [Our Lord] has not been pleased to answer me whenever it is a question of matters appertaining to our Province, for he is very disgusted by the way our Province is behaving.”

Padre Pio could also see that the almost universal apostasy and desolation was growing and well in place all the way back in 1914.

In a letter on April 20, 1914, Padre Pio said: “…it afflicts my heart to see so many souls apostatizing from Jesus. What freezes the blood close to my heart is the fact that many of these souls become estranged from God solely because they are deprived of the divine word. The harvest is great but the laborers are few. Who is then to reap the harvest in the fields of the Church when it is almost ripe? Will it be scattered on the ground by reason of the scarcity of workers? Will it be reaped by Satan’s emissaries who are, unfortunately, both numerous and extremely active? Ah, may the most sweet God never allow this to happen. May He be moved to pity for the poverty of men which is becoming extreme.”

Padre Pio, Letter, April 25, 1914: “Let us pray to our most merciful Jesus to come to the aid of His Church, for her needs have become extreme.”

Padre Pio, Letter, February 16, 1915: “…she would need to have a director [spiritual] who is very enlightened in the ways of God. But where is such a one to be found in these dreadful times? The most merciful Jesus Himself has complained of this. Oh, my dear Father, what very sad times are these! ... May the divine Father soon put an end to this disastrous situation!”

Padre Pio, Letter, August 28, 1917: “Pray for this soul that weeps over the universal desolation and especially over the desolation of our poor Province.”
Padre Pio lamented to God the Father thus: “Father, I entreat you, either quickly put an end to the world or put an end to the sins that are continually committed against the adorable Person of your only-begotten Son.” Padre Pio saw World War I as a punishment for man’s unbelief.

In July of 1946, Padre Pio sent striking words to the Archbishop of Benevento, Italy: “Benevento was bombed, lost the cathedral and Episcopal residence as a punishment for the Archbishop… Worse, not even after this punishment from God is the Archbishop willing to understand his responsibility. He is truly hard of heart… souls are being lost and the enemies of God are wreaking havoc, all because the Archbishop sleeps…”

Padre Pio on the necessity of the Catholic faith, on the necessity of works with faith, and on other religions and sects

The Athanasian Creed: “Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.”

The Profession of Faith of the Council of Trent: “This true Catholic faith, outside of which no one can be saved… I now profess and truly hold…”

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra: “The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only to those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

John 3:5: “Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

Mark 16:16: “He that believeth, and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not, shall be condemned.”

Matthew 18:17: “And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and the publican.”

Matthew 16:18-19: “…thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.”

1st Timothy 3:15: “…the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.”

James 2:24: “…Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?”

Apocalypse 20:12-15: “And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead that were in it: and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them: and they were judged every one according to their works. And hell and death were cast into the pool of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the pool of fire.

Apocalypse 22:12: “Behold, I come quickly: and my reward is with me, to render to every man according to his works.

The letters from Padre Pio clearly prove that he didn’t respect false religions and that he held firmly to the dogma that it is necessary for salvation to be a Catholic.

Here’s what Monsignor George Pogany (who personally knew Padre Pio) said about Padre Pio’s view of other religions. “…Padre Pio insisted that the Catholic faith was the only religion founded by Jesus Christ. He accepted everyone as a man, but he was convinced that other religions were founded by different men, as by Luther, as by Calvin, or by Zwingli…”

Padre Pio, Letter, January 27, 1918: “…the Church; this dear and sweet dove, which alone can lay the eggs, giving birth to the little doves of the Bridegroom. Continually thank God that you are a daughter of the Church…”

Speaking about mankind’s sins, Padre Pio said: “He (Jesus) sees all the ugliness and the malice of creatures in committing them. He knows to what extent these sins offend and outrage the Majesty of God. He sees all the infamies, immodesties, blasphemies which proceed from the lips of creatures accompanied by the malice of their hearts, of those hearts and those lips which were created to bring forth hymns of praise and benediction to the Creator. He sees the sacrileges with which priests and faithful defile themselves, not caring about those sacraments instituted for our salvation as necessary means for it; now, instead, made an occasion of sin and damnation of souls.”

A blind man named Pietruccio asked Padre Pio what a person has to do to save his soul. Padre Pio answered: “It is enough if you keep the commandments of God and of the Church.”

Padre Pio was once heard to say about a kind doctor, “What a pity he is a Jew.”
In a letter on April 7, 1913, Padre Pio said: “How many wretched brothers of ours respond to Jesus’ love by casting themselves with open arms into the infamous sect of Freemasonry!”

During Padre Pio’s days, various non-Catholic sects were actively trying to convert Italian people. One of these sects opened a kindergarten near Padre Pio. Padre Pio knew that the children were being exposed to criticism of the Catholic faith. Padre Pio was very angry; he said to the superior: “Do something quickly! Go in my name to the archbishop and get permission to open a kindergarten right near theirs…” A kindergarten was started, and in a short period of time the sect had to close their kindergarten and move out.

Padre Pio on getting to Heaven and the fewness of the saved

1st Peter 4:18 “And if the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the wicked and the sinner appear?”

Matthew 7:13 “Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who enter by it.”

Padre Pio, Letter to a priest, February 23, 1915: “May Jesus and Mary assist you always and may they give your words the power to convert and to stem the headlong rush of many souls towards the precipice.”

Padre Pio said: “Don’t you know that we must be alert on the road to salvation? Only the fervent succeed in reaching it, never the tepid or those who sleep!”

In a letter on May 27, 1914, Padre Pio said: “Dear God! If all were aware of your severity as well as of your tenderness, what creature would be so foolish as to dare to offend you?”

One of the brothers asked Padre Pio, “Why do you cry?” Padre Pio responded: “Why should I not cry seeing humanity damning itself at all cost.”

Speaking of the Divine Blood of Jesus: “Only a few will profit by It, the greater number run the way of perdition.”

Padre Pio on the Faith

Padre Pio: “We must remember that faith is the greatest gift that God has offered man on this earth, because from an earthly man he becomes a citizen of Heaven. Let us guard this great gift jealously. Woe to him who forgets himself, who forgets Heaven, whose faith grows weak, and worse still who denies his faith. This is the greatest affront that man can offer to God.”

Padre Pio: “…renew your faith in the truths of Christian doctrine, especially at times of conflict. And renew in a most particular way your faith in the promises of eternal life which our most sweet Jesus makes to those who fight energetically and courageously. You should be encouraged and comforted by the knowledge that we are not alone in our sufferings, for all the followers of the Nazarene scattered throughout the world suffer in the same manner and are all exposed like ourselves to the trials and tribulations of life.”

Padre Pio: “In temptations against faith, invoke St. Michael and Sts. Peter and Paul.”

Gethsemane, click on the following link, scroll down to the bottom of the page to the section SOME OF THE NEWEST PROGRAMS: look for Answering Objections Against Padre Pio and click on it. The brothers discuss and respond to the claims that Padre Pio endorsed the heresies of Vatican II, Humanae Vitae and salvation outside the Church.

http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Traditional_Catholic_Audios.php

Padre Pio is one of the greatest Saints the Catholic Church has produced; he had the faith (obviously). He believed in the dogma Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus exactly how the Church proclaims it – as it is written. Doubt it not.

Hi FatimaForOurTimes,
Many thanks for your post, appreciated. I have read the book about Padre Pio by the Dimonds a few years ago. In your post however you did not address the story about Padre Pio praying for the soul of King George or the Mary Pyle story concerning her mother. I do not want to go down a quagmire here, nor have I any intention of doing obsessive research, but the Dimonds have contradicted themselves too much for me to any longer take them as an authority although I agree with a lot they have to say, but an authority? certainly not. I am not taking any sides on the matter at all I would just really like to know how reliable the stories are by evidence. The Dimonds have their own spin on it to suit their personal position, but like I say (from a small amount of research) they contradict themselves and change their stance with the passage of time. Once again many thanks!

RememberGethsemane wrote:

Hi FatimaForOurTimes,
Many thanks for your post, appreciated. I have read the book about Padre Pio by the Dimonds a few years ago. In your post however you did not address the story about Padre Pio praying for the soul of King George or the Mary Pyle story concerning her mother. I do not want to go down a quagmire here, nor have I any intention of doing obsessive research, but the Dimonds have contradicted themselves too much for me to any longer take them as an authority although I agree with a lot they have to say, but an authority? certainly not. I am not taking any sides on the matter at all I would just really like to know how reliable the stories are by evidence. The Dimonds have their own spin on it to suit their personal position, but like I say (from a small amount of research) they contradict themselves and change their stance with the passage of time. Once again many thanks!

If you listen to the MP3 I directed you to, the brother’s discuss the issue you have with Padre Pio and the Dogma Outside The Church There Is No Salvation. If I remember correctly, Padre Pio prayed for King George before he was brought before the judgment seat of God, as any charitable person would do for anyone who was about to be judged by Our Divine Savior. I believe the brother’s discuss the story concerning Mary Pile and her mother in the same audio.

What’s the problem anyway Gethsemane? Are you having trouble believing in the dogma Outside The Church There Is No Salvation? Crises in your faith? Listen to Padre Pio then; invoke St. Michael the Archangel and SS Peter and Paul. Can’t you just have faith in the dogmas of the Church as they are written? Once a dogma is quoted, that’s it. If that didn’t settle the matter, nothing would.

If Padre Pio believed the protestant King George could be saved as a non-Catholic and Mary Piles mother the Jew could get to heaven, would that settle it for you to believe souls can be saved outside the Church, even though it has been infallibly defined many times? If so then, I must say you are truly faithless (Of course, I’m nearly sure, that's not the case).

The following would settle it for any Catholic who had even an ounce of fidelity to the Papacy and Papal Infallibly; not to mention Pope Eugene IV at the Council of Florence in his famous ex cathedra bull Cantate Domino:

Pope Gregory XVI, Summo Iugiter Studio, May 27, 1832, on no salvation outside the Church: “You know how zealously Our predecessors taught that article of faith which these dare to deny, namely the necessity of the Catholic faith and of unity for salvation… Omitting other appropriate passages which are almost numberless in the writings of the Fathers, We shall praise St. Gregory the Great who expressly testifies that THIS IS INDEED THE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. He says: ‘The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved.’ Official acts of the Church proclaim the same dogma. Thus, in the decree on faith which Innocent III published with the synod of Lateran IV, these things are written: ‘There is one universal Church of all the faithful outside of which no one is saved.’ Finally the same dogma is also expressly mentioned in the profession of faith proposed by the Apostolic See, not only that which all Latin churches use, but also that which… other Eastern Catholics use. We did not mention these selected testimonies because We thought you were ignorant of that article of faith and in need of Our instruction. Far be it from Us to have such an absurd and insulting suspicion about you. But We are so concerned about this serious and well known dogma, which has been attacked with such remarkable audacity, that We could not restrain Our pen from reinforcing this truth with many testimonies.”

Dimonds have contradicted themselves too much

Please show me where they have contradicted themselves when exposing the heresies and apostasy of the Vatican II counter church.

As for the passage of time, to go from non-Catholic to Novos Ordo to traditional Catholic is a process; it doesn’t just happen overnight. So obviously a person is going to “change their stance” with “the passage of time.” As it stands today, they haven’t changed their stance in years. They hold firm and stand strong in their current position, which I believe they will hold until death or until a true Catholic Pope ascends to the Seat of St. Peter. The latter I can’t see happening as I believe we are right at the door.

If I come across any material on the issue other than the brothers I’ll pass it on to you Gethsemane. However I don’t think you are going to get the answer you are looking for as Padre Pio was a Catholic who held that all non-Catholics must be converted to the true faith for salvation. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either a liar or an unbeliever themselves.

Thanks Fatima, I'm not looking for a particular answer, it's just that I believe there are other very well-researched and sincere spokespersons on the subject and I don't accept the Dimonds conclusions as definitive is all. Thanks for your time.

Gethsemane wrote:

Thanks Fatima, I'm not looking for a particular answer, it's just that I believe there are other very well-researched and sincere spokespersons on the subject and I don't accept the Dimonds conclusions as definitive is all. Thanks for your time.

No bother at all.

RememberGethsemane wrote:Hello all, I'm new here, so a brief intro. I am a european male in my 40s. I have been reading some of the posts here on the never-ending arguments about salvation outside the church, I am no further forward, so I searched to find anything Padre Pio had said or done regarding it and I found the following article. I would really appreciate all comments on it, particularly on the authenticity of it. I also wonder have the Dimond bros. or any other sedevacantists ever discussed or commented on the Padre's stance. Thanks in advance...

http://www.romancatholicism.org/pio-sedevacantist websites.htm

Your link didn't work and I don't have the time to search the site. Is your main problem that Padre Pio prayed for non Catholics? I see no problem there. The king is an Anglican and is baptized and holds the main tenants ( hopefully) of the Faith all that is needed is a sincere repentance of any sins that may have offended God. What transpires before death in a baptized Christian is a mystery but there is NOT GOOD hope of their salvation as Pius IX wrote.

I am a traditional Catholic but I am also an American, and per the latter (and, also, the former -- "Truth can defend itself!") am absolutely oppossed to censorship on the Internet. This is why I support things such as:

1) The Tor browser (surf the Internet in complete anonymity):

https://www.torproject.org/download/download-easy.html.en

2) TrueCrypt (some of the strongest encryption available):

http://www.truecrypt.org/

Be sure to use one or more "key files" with a passphrase that "is easy for you to remember but impossible for others to guess." Also, use general system encryption along with triple-cascading encryption for your individual file containers. Create a few "bogus" TrueCrypt containers. Give everything innocuous names with obscure extensions (except for "temp" extensions) and locate your containers, real and bogus, in obscure subdirectories. Use CCleaner "religiously"!

3) Technitium MAC Address Changer ("spoof" your MAC address when connecting to W-Fi hotspots -- you'll appear to be a completely different computer every time you connect!):

http://www.technitium.com/tmac/index.html

4) Vuze -- anonymous downloads via Tor or I2P:

http://www.vuze.com/

5) Quicksilver Lite (for completely anonymous email via the Mixmaster network):

https://www.quicksilvermail.net/qslite/

Okay, enough of the sales pitch , but PLEASE share the above with everyone you know, especially, those individuals who are in the Catholic pro-life movement. ("Yes, they are watching you!") To get the "Padre Pio" article, do the following:

1) Google "Traditional Catholic Counter-Revolution."

2) Select site.

3) Do a find for 'Pio'.

4) Click link for article.

And, I forgot some:

6) CCleaner (keep your private files, well, "private"):

http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner

7) Claws-Mail (open-source email client):

http://www.claws-mail.org/

8 ) Gpg4win (send email securely):

http://www.gpg4win.org/

9) PeerBlock (helps keep "snoopers" out):

http://www.peerblock.com/

10) Lingoes (translator software which can help protect your privacy even more):

http://www.lingoes.net/en/index.html

Use the above with Tor; before sending an email, first translate it into another language (say, German), and then translate that back into English -- you'll get something different!

11) Oracle VM (install under Windows):

https://www.virtualbox.org/

Run a Linux VM -- adds more security! Surf the Internet with Firefox.

12) Process Hacker (see what's really running on your machine!):

http://processhacker.sourceforge.net/

13) Use the VLC media player (open source, so no "back doors"):

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

You should also only use a tablet (much easier to maintain the physical security of your device), disable all USB ports, Firewire ports (it's "IEEE 1394" in your Device Manager; disable in BIOS, also), and especially, Windows auto-play options (see Windows Control Panel in the "Autoplay" section -- set to "Take no action" for each one); test regularly using JonDonym (just Google); make sure that your Virus scanners are up-to-date, use Windows Firewall, open port scanners, verify process hash values (Google "Prio"), etc; only use anonymous Wi-Fi hotspots ("anonymously," of course -- don't park in front of a stranger's house!!); use SSDs for reliability, and only do full-image backups when the SSDs have been dismouted if possible, stick with open-source programs, beware of keyloggers, and above all else, maintain the physical security of your tablet at all times!

And, just in case, your asking "Why," well, it's "better to be safe than sorry..."

Jehanne, hope you passed your pancake recipe through all those security checks before posting

Welcome RememberGethsemane,
Padre Pio has often been falsely quoted to support everything and anything, especially by those opposed to the post Vatican II Church. This saint has been sinisterly used by some to attack the very Church he was totally obedient and loyal to and they have portrayed and betrayed him as some type of sedevacantist.
But for those in any doubt regarding his love and obedience of Pope Paul VI (antipope, according to some on this forum) one only has to read the letter he wrote to Pope Paul VI, two weeks before his death.

"I unite myself with my brothers and present at your feet my affectionate respect, all my devotion to your august person in an act of faith, love and obedience to the dignity of him whom you are representing on this earth. The Capuchin Order has always been in the first line in love, fidelity, obedience and devotion to the Holy See; I pray to God that it may remain thus and continue in its tradition of religious seriousness and austerity, evangelical poverty and faithful observance of the Rule and Constitution, certainly renewing itself in the vitality and in the inner spirit, according to the guides of the Second Vatican Council, in order to be always ready to attend to the necessities of Mother Church under the rule of your Holiness.

I know that your heart is suffering much these days in the interest of the Church, for the peace of the world, for the innumerable necessities of
the people of the world, but above all, for the lack of obedience of some, even Catholics, to the high teaching that you, assisted by the Holy
Spirit and in the name of God, are giving us. I offer you my prayers and daily sufferings as a small but sincere contribution on the part of the least of your sons in order that God may give you comfort with his Grace to follow the straight and painful way in the defence of eternal truth, which never changes with the passing of the years. Also, in the name of my spiritual children and the Prayer Groups, I thank you for your clear and decisive words that you especially pronounced in the last encyclical "Humanae
Vitae"; and I reaffirm my faith, my unconditional obedience to your illuminated directions.

May God grant victory to the truth, peace to his Church, tranquillity to the world, health and prosperity to your Holiness so that, once these fleeting doubts are dissipated, the Kingdom of God may triumph in all hearts, guided by your apostolic work as Supreme Pastor of all Christianity.

Prostrate at your feet, I beg you to bless me in the company of my brothers in religion, my spiritual children, the Prayer Groups, my sick ones and also to bless all our good endeavours which we are trying to fulfil under your protection in the name of Jesus.

Humbly yours,

P. Pio, Capuchin"

God Bless you, Simple Faith

We know that Saint Padre Pio is with God in Heaven for all eternity. Pray for his help. The rest will take care of itself. Pray much. Pray for me.


JMJ,

George

Hi Simple Faith,
Thank you for your post. I am already familiar with this letter. Are you familiar with the arguments surrounding it that it did not come from the hand of Padre Pio himself as he could no longer hold a pen and was in very poor health at the time, but rather it was written by one of his aides? It's really hard to get to the core of the issue due to the authenticity of the evidence presented. Nice to meet you and thanks again.